Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
#073- "The Next Chapter" with Jay McClellan
In this episode, we delve into the captivating journey of Jay McClellan, TMPA’s new full-time training coordinator. Jay shares his remarkable career trajectory, offering insights into the transformation of law enforcement training, from traditional block training to engaging scenario-based exercises. He also discusses the invaluable lessons learned from jail environments and the vital support provided by local associations to new recruits.
Listen to firsthand accounts of the sense of camaraderie and family within the department and Jay's pivotal role in securing civil service status for the Missouri City Police Officers Association. Jay's passion for driving statewide impact is evident as he shares his experiences.
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
In this episode, we delve into the captivating journey of Jay McClellan, TMPA’s new full-time training coordinator. Jay shares his remarkable career trajectory, offering insights into the transformation of law enforcement training, from traditional block training to engaging scenario-based exercises. He also discusses the invaluable lessons learned from jail environments and the vital support provided by local associations to new recruits.
Listen to firsthand accounts of the sense of camaraderie and family within the department and Jay's pivotal role in securing civil service status for the Missouri City Police Officers Association. Jay's passion for driving statewide impact is evident as he shares his experiences.
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
All the work that I've done in my local association, I felt like set me up to move into another career. I knew I wanted to be able to do that on a statewide level. I've been a member of TMPA since I started my career. I just know that TMPA is the best and I wanted to be part of that.
Speaker 2:Welcome back Blue Grit watchers, viewers, listeners, I'm your host, Tyler Owen and Clinton McInerney. What's going on? Man, I'm here. You came in last night.
Speaker 3:I got in late last night. I'm a little too old. I realized to drive in late somewhere, but I did. What time did you get in? About 10.45.
Speaker 2:Oh wow, that 10 45. Oh wow, that is late. That's about an hour and 45 minutes past my bedtime way late for you. You, but you and I don't know if can we talk about it what you did last night yeah, you and tony goblin, uh, two years ago, was the national hall of fame receive uh award winner, I guess, and also catfish cops host and your longtime best friend y'all were on a film or a documentary.
Speaker 3:Yep shooting a pilot for a show on A&E called Catfish Cops. We'll see where it goes. Tony's done a lot of good stuff and I'm proud to see him get highlighted Some of his work get highlighted. We'll see where the pilot goes. It's interesting stuff what he does for a living. If you want to explain, he's the cac guy for garland, but does it what statewide, nationwide? Yeah, he's a crimes against children um, internet crimes against children detective um. He's. He's bigger than all three of us but he sits on the computer all day acting like a hot 13 year old little girl to lure.
Speaker 3:As funny as hell sicko cowards to um to his city to take them into custody and put them in prison, where they belong. He's been doing it forever. He's recognized as a federal and state expert, travels literally around the world teaching some other countries on how to do ICAC work. He's a good dude. I'm proud to know him.
Speaker 2:And recently he just got appointed to be on the National Hall of Fame Board of Trustees. So congratulations to Tony Goblin, Catfish Cops, Tone Loke.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, how are you, good man.
Speaker 2:I had to pull the Jeep. Top was off today. So Austin's experiencing some weather situations going on and I wanted to ask this question today. So it amazes me living down here not that we didn't have the problem in East Texas, I'm not saying that. But living down here, having the Jeep top off and the doors off, you begin to be exposed to a lot of odors, okay, lots.
Speaker 3:There's odors in Austin.
Speaker 2:I'm shocked, well not just Austin, but just in Central Texas, okay. So I'm driving along and I'm still at 60 miles an hour. I could smell weed bad, and so I had a friend well, not a friend, he was my first FTO by the name of Travis Redd. I guarantee you there's case law on Travis Redd and he is the kind of guy to give you kind of an explanation. He's the guy at any department that types in all caps. He's the grouchy old man that just knows how to be police. You would not want this guy writing a homicide narrative, but he would be going out there knocking heads. He would stop people all the time because his windows were rolled down. Why'd you stop me? I smelled marijuana coming out of this car. I was asking today. I was thinking I was going to ask you this. I was driving down the road and I smelt it coming out and I knew it was this one car in front of me. How would that look on a PC? Stop. Do you think that would be legit?
Speaker 3:Now that you can smell it in your Jeep.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:If I pull your Jeep over? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I'm not sure. In the Democratic People's Republic of Austin, I was just wondering.
Speaker 2:I was like man, I wonder if this would be good PC stuff. Anyway, fun times. But today's show is about a colleague that was a part-time field rep, now a full-time training coordinator for TMPA. Great guy, good friend, and I am super excited to see where you're going to take our training division and where it goes from here. Former Mo City Sergeant, retired.
Speaker 1:Retired. Excuse me, I'm sorry. Mo City, sergeant Mo City.
Speaker 2:Sergeant Jay McAlellan, welcome to the Blue.
Speaker 1:Grid stage man. I appreciate y'all having me Appreciate it.
Speaker 3:We recently learned that Jay's got a bar in Washington DC McClellan's. That's right, I do, it's awesome.
Speaker 1:He didn't even know he had it. Yeah, tried to drink for free.
Speaker 2:They wouldn't let me. Well, I think you're part of the me and Curtis Billings Club. As far as the drinking, I don't think Clint's not. He hadn't graduated at that point yet.
Speaker 1:But no man, welcome to Blue Grip having me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we wanted to bring you on today and talk about what all is going on with the training and talk about we're excited about how the training division is going since you've taken it over and kind of what the new plans are. Start at the beginning.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Who the hell's Jay? Where'd you grow up? How'd you get into law enforcement?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I was born in the Panhandle up in Borger Texas. My family is oil people.
Speaker 3:So I was oil people Born in Borger Oil people. That's how I owns a bar.
Speaker 1:Is it Borger or Borger Borger? I know it's not Anastasia or Anastasia.
Speaker 2:I'm going to have to make a middle note.
Speaker 1:Borger Texas. Like I said, oil industry Ended up in Odessa, texas.
Speaker 3:Beautiful metropolis.
Speaker 1:Spent some time in Odessa during the uh the boom there and uh the rise of the the panthers, and uh had actually had season tickets to the permian panthers game in the 80s. My dad got those tickets from his secretary, who got them in a divorce decree, so that's big business up there for nonTexas listeners, if you've ever seen the show Friday.
Speaker 3:Night Lights that's what Jay is referencing is football. Oil and football are about the two things, that's it.
Speaker 1:That's about Texas. You can get right there, yeah, that's it up there and then ultimately got transferred to Houston. So that's kind of where I grew up. Most of my childhood was in Houston. I live south of Houston, in Pearland, graduated from Pearland High how I kind of got into law enforcement. You know, just kind of like any other kid, not sure what you want to do with your life, never had any family that was in law enforcement. A guy I grew up with, his brother-in-law was the chief deputy in Fort Bend County and he was working in the jail. I said, hey, man, come work in the jail. Man, this is where it's at Dude. I sit here and we watch these guys all day. Make big money. I make big money. I make like $23,000 a year.
Speaker 2:Holy shit, that's a lot of money. How old were?
Speaker 1:you. Well, I actually started when I was 22. So I tried to do the college thing. Realized eh, I don't know if this is really a fit. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to make money and get with my life and have a career. I never really thought about law enforcement but, you know, sounded attractive, went, got. You know, got hired on as a jailer and really quickly learned that I am not trying to stay in jail. I was not interested in staying in the jail that long. I wanted to know how to get out of the jail as soon as I could. So put myself through the police academy, got out of the academy, went to patrol, worked patrol at Fort Bend County. How?
Speaker 3:long did you work in the jail?
Speaker 1:I worked there for almost a year in the jail and then I put myself through the academy while I was in the jail, so working the evening shift and then going during the day, and then went to patrol. I worked patrol there for almost two and a half years and a friend of mine who worked at the sheriff's office with me, he had gone to Missouri City and back in the day there used to be a blues magazine that would come and have like these advertisements for police departments and Missouri City was paying $42,000. Doubling your money, doubling my money. So I called him, said, hey, I work the district, missouri City District. And I called him up, said hey, meet me, I want to ask you some questions.
Speaker 1:Got down there and really the only question I had was is it true that y'all are making $42,000 a year? And he said, yeah, just got a big raise. Said OK, what do I got to do? He said I'm going to put in a word for you. I said man, I really appreciate it. What does that mean? He's like well, you won't have to come take the test, you just have to pass the physical, sign me up. So that was in 2007. So ultimately got hired in 2007 with Missouri City Worked patrol. Worked in administration kind of led me to the training department. Was instrumental in writing the contract to become a contract training provider with T-Close at the time.
Speaker 2:Which is so complex? Which is so complex?
Speaker 1:Which is so complex. Yeah, it's a cumbersome task. Anybody that's watching this knows me that I'm definitely not scared of change. I felt like that. You know we needed change that. You know we had so much talent inside that we could be teaching our own people. We just couldn't, you know, give them the credit.
Speaker 1:So went to the chief. We had a really progressive chief. He came from out of state, said hey, this is what. You know what it takes to do this. And he's like perfect, you can do it, write it up. I was like, ok, that's so. Yeah, sit down, figured out what I needed to do, went through the rules, figured out you know what was required, wrote the proposal, centered up the chain and ultimately became a contract training provider. So we were we're the only actually Missouri City is the only contract training provider in Fort Bend County. There is a police academy there, the Gus George Academy. So just felt like that was, you know, important to be able to train people, train people in the area. And then ultimately got promoted to sergeant, went to patrol, work patrol. I was assigned to the auto theft unit, wound up coming back and the guy that ultimately got that I met with from the sheriff's office. He was on the auto theft task force and I got assigned to be on the task force as a sergeant.
Speaker 2:Task force. The task force. Yes, sir, I didn't know you were a TFO.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was called the BAT team, the burglary auto theft team. Great group of guys and, like I said, the original guy that brought me to Missouri City he was on there, he was a detective at the time. Unfortunately, he's been killed in the line of duty. Got killed back in May of 2020. Friendly fire, actually. So, yeah, caleb Rule Shout out to Caleb Rule, man, I love that guy. I miss him, but he was instrumental in me coming to Missouri City and then ultimately getting to work with them directly and, you know, undercover capacity. All those guys were great, went back, worked in criminal investigations, so worked. I had about eight detectives assigned to me and then my last stop again was back on the administrative side, being the training coordinator. So kind of full circle with Missouri City, started on patrol and, you know, was adamantly involved in admin and then ultimately ended my career in the administration division. So that's kind of nuts and bolts of where I came from and my kind of my law enforcement career.
Speaker 2:What launched your, I guess your passion and dedication for training. What was your? Because I never really I mean teaching to me. Clint actually taught a class there in Tyler, taught ledge updates, and I saw the humor that he kind of because I mean, let's face it, back long ago it was all about business and it was straightforward. And so when I saw how Clint taught the ledge update and brought humor into it, I was like man and it was straightforward. And so when I saw how Clint taught the Ledge Update and brought humor into it, I was like man, that's pretty cool. And so I took that we all learn something from everybody every single day. And so when I saw him teach that there was another colleague that taught Ledge Updates that was very much similar to that. And so taking what I learned is kind of how I got my interest in it, but I wasn't solely devoted to training. So what prompted you to just be like man? This is really important to me. This is the way I want to go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just I mean seeing the need, the need for training, you know, being able to provide the training in the area that you may not be getting. Yeah, ledge update, that's a rough class If you can bring some sort of humor, or it's like watching paint dry yeah.
Speaker 1:I mean it's I teach basic instructor school and like, hey, if you get assigned to teach this, you probably should work on your skills because they're not asking you to teach something. That's interesting, right? I mean it's black and white, the law, right? Yep, what's been changed? So yeah, just mainly you know trying to. You know bring that training in that you know identifying those needs.
Speaker 1:We used to do what's called block training, so we would identify throughout the year issues that we felt like you know our officers needed and then we'd hone in on those.
Speaker 1:And then, you know it usually would culminate in some sort of force on force or decision making deals where you know you take your skills you learned throughout the week and then you apply those skills on Friday. So we literally set up, like a you know, say, a pursuit gone awry where you have a foot, and then you apply those skills on Friday. So we literally set up, like a you know, say, a pursuit gone awry where you have a foot chase and then home invasion and you have to work that scene just like you would a patrol officer, right? So you know collecting the evidence and ultimately, you know writing the report, and you know the report will be the final grade. So just those things that kind of interest me. Being able to impart the wisdom that I felt like I've, you know, gotten over my career and the training that I had received, and being able to impart that on other officers was always important to me.
Speaker 3:No law enforcement background, no family in law enforcement, so you didn't have a base kind of of where you kicked off from looking back, or did you ever realize along the way? Working in the jail is tough, it's challenging, but is there some tools working in a jail situation, the environment there that you felt like helped set you up or helped you in your patrol and police career?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean working in that jail. You have to be one. You have to know that they're playing that game on you, so they're going to try to play that game. You've got to learn that game, learning how to talk to people, depending on the jail setting and where you were assigned, there might be 50 guys that you're responsible for and, on the jail setting and where you were assigned, there might be, you know, 50 guys that you're responsible for and they're all trying to game you. They're all trying to manipulate you. They're all trying to work something out in their advantage. So you take that with you on the streets. You know, you see those and a lot of times you run into those guys on the streets and you know.
Speaker 1:You also learn how to treat people. It's very important to treat people right, regardless of you know the situation they may be in. I can recall I think it was a Christmas Eve or a Christmas day we had like a crash scene and there was a gentleman walking up on the sidewalk as he coming towards a crash scene, and immediately I recognized him. He was a guy that I dealt with in the jail and he coming towards the crash scene and immediately I recognized him. He was a guy that I dealt with in the jail and he lend a hand. He's like oh, I remember you. You weren't used to working in jail, man, let me help you. I did try to move this guardrail off the roadway or whatever.
Speaker 1:So, traffic and he come walking up and he's like, yeah, I remember you and they call me J Mac. You know, hey, let me help you. And so, yeah, I mean that was that's a relationship you build. I was respectful to him and you know I didn't treat them any different than anybody else and you learn that'll get you a lot farther than you know heavy hand or uses of force I mean you need to train for those things but you're being able to speak to somebody goes a lot, a lot further and you learn that skill in the jail.
Speaker 3:And a lot of times young folks get into working in the jail and they don't have a lot of life experience, or they don't have a lot of. There's just not a lot of experience. And, man, if you can't read a room, read the audience, read people and start understanding. Ok, these people are running a con on me to try and get something. Or to you know, slip some contraband by. If you don't have it, man, the jail's a great way to cause you're going to freaking, learn it or getting eaten up by it one or the other really quick.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I mean um. Twice in my career I was a train um the field, training supervisor, and we would hire guys that had no experience, like no life experience. You know homeschool kids and you put them out there on a patrol car and you send them to calls and people with a lot more life, you know, you come into contact with them and and you know the unfortunately. You know. I can think of a few guys that were were unsuccessful in our FTO program and and but we never, we never discouraged them from law enforcement and we would often contact the sheriff's office and say, look, hey, we got this guy, we hired him. He really wasn't ready for patrol. They're always hiring in the jail. So I can think of a couple of guys that got hired in Missouri City and ultimately ended up before Ben in the jail and are successful patrol patrol cops now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like throwing chum in a shark tank in the right situation.
Speaker 2:Well, and during during your stint at most city, at some point you became involved with their. Had they always been FOP, or was it? Did they transition over 2017, 2016 ish?
Speaker 1:No. So, um, early on I was very involved in getting involved in the local association. You know I've always been the vocal type but I also love the. You know just the support, the camaraderie, the outside of. You know the department, you know more of a sense of a family in the associations. So I got involved early, early on, and wanted to join the local association and had a little bit of a strife joining I'm sure some of y'all know the story but I'm not going to get into that but ultimately got onto the board as a member and got on the board probably maybe a year or two after I started there and just really got involved in wanting to better the department.
Speaker 1:The association, the Missouri City Police Officers Association, was founded in 1992 with the sole purpose of seeking civil service. Now I started in 2007. We were at will so I never got off the ground. It was attempted many a times but I knew that ultimately I knew the benefits of civil service. I knew that it was important that you know we needed to look at that and then ultimately we had, you know, a structure already set up for civil service.
Speaker 1:We had forward-thinking command staff members that were the founding members of the association that set up policy that were mirroring civil service. So we never really had any issues. But then when those people started retiring off and then you have new command staff from you know, we had a chief that came from out of state. So people start to say think, oh man, well, am I missing an opportunity to get promoted? They're going to bring these people inside. That's when I say, hey, you know, civil service is where, where we need to be. So yeah, so I got involved early, early on. I've been since you know 2008,. I've been, you know, on the board in some form or fashion.
Speaker 2:What struck me is that and I don't mean to bring up bad times for me, because it is a, it is a, it was a was a very bad week. Uh, looking back on it, it was the week of the infamous drone class, and so I reached out to Jay because he was in Pearland, and so I said hey, brother, I'm headed down there Me. You and your wife went out to dinner, but then you also told me he said hey, most cities, POA was going to meet at some brewery.
Speaker 1:How often does that happen? Yeah, so we do two. They do two events a year for just the membership and that's during police week, typically. So the way Missouri City's schedules work, at least on the patrol side, is you're either off a Saturday or you're off a Sunday. So we work kind of a Thursday, friday, saturday every other Wednesday, or Sunday, monday, tuesday every other Wednesday. So we schedule something on Saturday and something on Sunday during police, police week and that's to celebrate the officers, right. So, um, several years now it's awesome, yeah, I appreciate it. Several years now they've done, we've done a bowling event on saturday which is always well attended, and then we we started adding the sunday event at the brewery. So those guys, they that those guys and gals that have to work on Saturday, they can come do something family oriented Sunday brewery, we hang out provide food, so the event that I attended was just.
Speaker 2:it's just one time a year.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then we do things throughout the year to try to help membership, you know. And then the biggest thing that we do every year we've been doing it 40, I think this year will be the 45th or 46th is our annual golf tournament. But yeah, that event is once a year but we do events throughout the year. So I mean it just kind of depends on what's going on.
Speaker 2:What shocked me was the amount of officers attending from your agency. Clint's ran an association, I ran an association and I was overwhelmed with not just you have officers that show up and get a plate and then leave. Sure, let's call it what it is, but it was. I called him and I was like man, I am blown away at Mo City and how they and so he compared it to the atmosphere and the culture at your department, very much like Arlington. He's referenced Arlington with their, their. Their meetings are very much family oriented. Their wives, their spouses, hell, I think. Even Chris Sabawa said that some parents even come when they're, when their kids are working. So kudos to you guys for doing that. It's pretty, it was. It was. Kudos to you guys for doing that it was pretty cool for me to watch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it took time, you know you. Just you got to. They're cops, right. You got to prove to them that, hey, this is in your best interest and you know. But you know, over time they see the things that you do, you know. It's kind of like, well, what does my you know dues do for you know for me, what do the dues do? And we show them that. I mean we typically it's $100 a year and you get that back. I mean, if you attend any?
Speaker 1:meetings, events. You're going to get your money back in return. The dues is not how we survive. It's fundraising right and we need you guys to come and understand that this money is your money.
Speaker 2:Come help us and then we'll give it back to you. We also a chief was there. You introduced me, said hey, this is you know, tyler owen tmp, because I think you were still a part-time field rep at the time. Yeah, I think so. And you introduced it to your a chief and so I walked up and say you know, hello, sir tyler owen. Very I want to love and this is my supervisor. I want to let him know I was very professional. Nope, no alcohol yet. And so he slaps my hand. He was like what the hell is that? And I was like, oh, my god. He said, are you a cop? And I was like yeah, he's like fucking huge bear hug and like hugs me real time really like oh yeah, I'm home.
Speaker 3:That's cool man, anyway. So yeah, I I'm home.
Speaker 1:That's cool man, Anyway. So yeah, I mean, there's, it was cool, Everybody in Missouri City. I just love them to death. Greatest, greatest people.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's what I'm fixing to segue into next is that you know we've both have made a difficult decision to this organization is that I couldn't imagine leaving law enforcement and not being somewhat tied to not having some involvement with the day-to-day activities with cops. And so, even though we don't wear a badge and gun every day, even though we're not hitting the streets, I still feel like I'm heavily involved, just as you do, and obviously you do now that I'm a part of the being the voice of Texas law enforcement and living up to that standard of what this organization has maintained for so many years. And so was it hard to walk away from that of something that you built from the association standpoint, and then also walk away from a long-term career with Mo City.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean it's difficult. You know it was one of those things. The opportunity arose. You know I didn't want to pass the opportunity. I mean, like I said, I started as a part-time field rep. You know all the work that I've done in my local association. I felt like set me up to move into another career. I didn't know what I knew. I wanted to do a full career in law enforcement. I didn't know what I knew. I wanted to do a full career in law enforcement. I didn't know what I wanted to do afterwards. But after being involved in our local for so long and being successful in getting things done, I knew I wanted to be able to do that on a statewide level.
Speaker 1:I've been a member of TMPA since I started my career. I just know that TMPA is the best and I wanted to be part of that. So, yeah, I mean, is it difficult to walk away? It can be, but I knew it was the right thing to do.
Speaker 1:You know, talking with my family, my wife, you know, is this what we want to do? And you know my wife being super supportive. Y'all know my wife. You know she was like go for it, this is what you want to do You're fit for that. That's what you, that's what you focus on and you know it was. It was difficult to walk away from those guys, but I still see them all the time. I mean I was, you know, I talked to the president of the association just last night so I helped those guys with their meet and confer agreement. Right now that's going on, so I'm still connected. And then not only that, but I get to broaden out and not just affect what happens at Missouri City but be able to affect what happens across the state, and that's the best to me.
Speaker 3:And for full disclosure, laura is super supportive. He had two options when he retired it was full-time tmpa or go back dancing at chippendales I would have done the chippendale and laura supported both of them. Yeah, we were grout, we were glad he chose us.
Speaker 1:Yes, but laura supported either one going back to dancing or it was an easy choice for me, so I was cold on those stages.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, backtrack one minute. Sure you mentioned civil service was uh, most city poa was started for the sole purpose of getting civil service. You spent a vast majority of your career there without it, but you had a huge win prior to retiring, talk about how that referendum, how that came about and trip falls which you learned and what that looked like getting achieving 143 civil service for Missouri city.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you know, I was off the board at the time. Um had our current president, mike zimmer, came to me and said hey, you know, I'm thinking about running for president. I want you to be my vice president. I was like, uh, you know, I mean, I don't know if I have the time I was on. I think I was in patrol at the time. I can't remember for sure. I think it was around 2017. Um, it was actually. It was 2017. I was dealing with the Harvey, cause my house had flooded during Harvey, so I was dealing with all that and, um, he's like man, I really I need your expertise. You, you know it, you breathe it, you lived it. I need you back on the board.
Speaker 3:You're a patrol sergeant at the time.
Speaker 1:I was patrol sergeant at the time, yeah, and I said okay, I said I will join, I will seek election. Of course I had no opponent, nobody wanted to really be on the board right.
Speaker 3:It's pretty easy to get elected. I won by default.
Speaker 1:I have had contested positions. When I was president I had a couple of guys ran against me, some old school guys. But anyway, yeah, most of the time it's pretty easy to get elected to association board. It's like, hey, can you do it? And we're just going to nominate you during the meeting, nobody's going to say anything and everybody's going to vote yes. But so, yeah, I agreed and I told him I said, look, I will do this, but we are going to seek civil service. Whether we are successful or not, we're going to seek it. This is what this, this association, was set up to do and we're going to seek it.
Speaker 1:He's like, okay, what do we do? And I said I'll tell you exactly what we're going to do. We're going to call TMPA and we're going to get the petition going and we're going to figure out how many signatures we need. So, yeah, I got with. You know TMPA pretty quickly. Ray Wilkinson shout out to Ray. Love Ray, to death. He's. You know, if you know a little bit of history of Missouri City, at one time there was two of us that were TNPA members and Ray showed up for me and the other member at the time. So big shout out to Ray.
Speaker 2:Ray's probably on the road today. Yeah, that was just for coffee.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't even I'd show up to meetings. I mean, he was dedicated, I mean, and that's what we do. You know, it doesn't matter where you're at. If you're a member, we're going to support you. So, yeah, but ultimately, you know, figured out what we needed to do, got twice the amount of signatures we needed I had. You know, people were committed. I mean, it was just a time in the career of officers that were committed to civil service and made it really easy.
Speaker 1:We met at the, of course. We met at the donut shop there on Cartwright Heck, yeah, every Saturday morning and we hit the streets. I mean, we were collecting signatures all day on Saturdays and then ultimately turned it in. So we were trying to get on the May ballot and we all know what happened in 2020. Covid struck, so they moved us to the general election, the 2020 general election and we had the support of the community. We uh, we laid down the groundwork pretty quickly. We had some contested um council races and we had both the opponents supporting us. So you know they were fighting each other, but they were supportive of the police. So, and fire, because we did a dual referendum with our fire department and, yeah, ultimately we won that by. I think it was 86 percent of the heard of.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean we, we just crushed that and then we went from that to we wound up doing a meet and confer, so we got with with our membership, our membership, 90 of our membership. The only reason we missed the 10 is they were off, signed for for us to be the sole bargainers, um, and then ultimately negotiated a contract, first contract ever last year. Just a one-year deal is all we could get done. And then, currently, um, they're attempting to get an extension on that and add a bunch of stuff and trying to get a three year deal out of the deal, which right now it's looking good. We have a couple of meetings still coming up and we'll see what happens. But yeah, I mean it's. It's been a lot of hard work, it's been a labor of love. I love the work and it's just a matter of getting the people to buy in and understand the importance of what these things are and how it benefits you as an individual, as you as an officer, and it ultimately benefits the department and the agency.
Speaker 2:But, just like you said, it does benefit them.
Speaker 1:For sure.
Speaker 2:But we can't stress this enough there has to be buy-in on their part, and it's legwork and hard work not just from the member side but also from their entire association to get shit like that done. But if they're successful, the benefits could be ever-changing and lifelong. So, man, I don't know, it's just kudos for you guys. I remember when it first happened, there was a huge email chain went out and texted they're like holy shit, 86% for civil service Huge.
Speaker 3:Did y'all have a meeting conferred prior, or did y'all have to get that to the voters, or did council approve it without it going to the voters?
Speaker 1:Yeah. So in hindsight we probably should have done a dual referendum and done a collective bargaining enemy in a civil service, but we just did the joint civil service with our fire department and then what ultimately happened was is we fell way, way behind in the market and we were we were on the verge of about 30 vacancies in Missouri city and we wound up getting our membership together and one we we knew we wanted meet confer.
Speaker 1:We knew that that's probably how we're going to have to go about it, but then we just simply went to the, you know, open meetings and we took our three minutes of fame and when you start, when you start having three, you know five or six, ten members sign up to speak about how you know their life is being affected by, you know, the lack of pay and the lack of manpower. Things get moving fairly quickly in cities, you know, like if the police aren't happy, then the citizens aren't happy. So, yeah, we wound up circulating the petition through our membership and got the council to approve it, adopt it and then ultimately was able to get about I think it was 17.5% increase in pay and now there are some changes to civil service in allowing for dual lists and being able to have multiple lists go going of certified versus non-certified, and so we were able to get some people hired fairly quickly through some of those changes and ultimately, that big raise that came through right. As you know, we were looking at meeting confer.
Speaker 3:One thing that stands out and it's one of the things I was excited about us getting you on full time is your whole career. When Jay decides he sees an issue or he's going to fix something, you better get out of his way because it's and I don't mean that negatively- that's true.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't want to bet against you. Is that a product of your raising, like your parents were an example? Is that something you learned? Have you always been that way? Is that something you just, as you matured? You just realized, because I, since the day I met you, that's something I've realized about you is you're going to do the legwork, you're going to do the homework and then when you decide something is broke or something could be done better, katie, bar the freaking door because we're about to roll, and I wouldn't bet against you on that. Where does that come from?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't know where it really comes from. You know my family's always been, you know, hard workers. You know boots on the ground, blue collar workers, I mean. You know I've always heard stories my, you know my dad would tell me. You know I'm sure a lot of it was probably made up. You know some of it was probably before. You know OSHA regulations but like you know working oil rigs in the summer at 14 and you know all this, you know you know hard work.
Speaker 3:Oil field's not for sissies.
Speaker 1:No, it's certainly not so. But you know, I don't know where it came from. I just always want to make sure that we're doing it right. If there's a right way to do it, let's go after it. If there's something we can change, if there's something we can make better, if there's a process I'm all about processes I don't know where I got it from. Sometimes it can be a detriment. I don't know where I got it from. Sometimes it can be a detriment, but you know, ultimately it has worked out for me in most cases. But yeah, I don't really know where I got that from or how I came about it, but it is definitely in me. You know, if I can find a way to make things easier for everybody, I'm not really looking for it, you know, to make it easier on me. I'm looking for making it easier on everyone. Like, how can we do this? That makes everything so much easier, and you know. And getting it done, let's get it done.
Speaker 3:Well, it resonates huge with me because I hate all cops. Most all police departments are We've always done it this way.
Speaker 1:I'm definitely not that good.
Speaker 3:Organizations, organizations, administrations, old school leaders. We've always done it this way, since 1904. I can't freaking stand that and I, I don't. I'm not. I don't want to just constantly try and rock the house or, you know, shake things up, but by god, if there is something better, more efficient, whatever, and man you have always. That's one thing, since we got you part-time all the way till now, and that's the reason in the role you're in is man, let's fix it. Even if it's hard work, let's roll sleeves up and take care of it and fix it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I asked the why. Why do we do this? Why are we doing? Doing it this way? Can we do it this way?
Speaker 3:I love the why, why, why, why yep, for sure, and oftentimes it's well, I don't know, or we've always I get a bad rap for it, though.
Speaker 1:You're like, oh, the malcontent and you know. But I mean, it's just, it's in my nature once, once people get to know me, yeah like, oh, that's just, jay, don't, let's look into it because he's not going to leave it alone. But you know, yeah, I definitely ask the why, for sure.
Speaker 3:So and we've seen it in training it's cool, you've come right in and just stepping in and idling along is always the easier route. And you're a tenured guy, I didn't say old, you're a tenured guy. But you're a tenured guy. I didn't say old, you're a tenured guy. But as we age, you know, a lot of people are like oh, I'm going to slow down, I'm just not going to, I'll roll with 70% effort. And I love that about you too, cause you're like no, I'm not going to.
Speaker 3:I'm not going to choose to idle, I'm going to keep plugging ahead. And you went right from part-time field rep working your tail off to now the TMPA statewide training coordinator dove headfirst Like day one. He's meeting with staff and what can?
Speaker 1:we do. Yeah, and that's the key. I mean I don't have all the answers. There's someone in the room that's always smarter than I am. You know if I can grab those people and say, hey, look what makes this easier for you, let's do it. You know, if it doesn't work, let's you know we'll scrap it and try something different. But yeah, I mean, yeah, I've always. You know, I love to make that change and I'm definitely not one to sit back and you know 70. I would sometimes. I wouldn't mind doing that, um, but it's just not in my nature.
Speaker 2:I just I can't sit back, no, no. And kudos to you, because I think it's hard if you work with cops. Getting them to buy into a new program is extremely difficult, extremely difficult, and and you've seen success out of doing that. So congratulations on that too. I appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, it's just the way you bring it to them. I can recall, you know, early on in Missouri City we were looking at a new CAD system and you know people were like, oh, you know, I'm going to have to figure out how to do this or that. Cops were complaining.
Speaker 3:I don't believe that were complaining.
Speaker 1:I don't know, I don't, I don't, I don't believe that. But you know, we sat down and said, look, how can we best show them that it's going to improve their job, make their job easier? And and we sat down and created a training program to implement it. Um, yeah, it was a lot of work on on myself and another guy's part. We were, you know, at the pd, 48 hours, training around the clock. But like, this is why it's important, this is why this is going to help you. And then you get that buy-in.
Speaker 2:You're like, oh yeah, they're bought in they're just the ucr reports, and all that shit affects your pay.
Speaker 1:No, more green screen people on the.
Speaker 3:You said the why is important to you and you understand to get buy-in. You got to make sure they understand the why too yeah, yeah, for sure it's not just a well, hey, you're going to do this and I know it sounds stupid, but you're going to do it Giving the why gets the buy-in, so they understand it as well.
Speaker 2:And they have to want to understand the why. Yeah, that's true, and you're not going to get them all.
Speaker 1:No, you're never going to get 100% buy.
Speaker 3:So what's in store for JMAC training coordinator Texas TMP.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so really the next item we have is the joint conference. We've got some training there at the joint conference. We're going to be doing advanced search and seizure there and then we have a case study out of Allen PD the mall shooting right, the mall shooting, right, the mall shooting. And then we're going to do because it's a joint conference this year with FOP, so we're going to do a state and federal kind of law update, not necessarily a legislative update, but kind of what's coming up. You know we have, obviously the federal legislature is always going on. We have a state legislature coming up in a year, so just kind of you know update of what TNPA, fop is looking at. But yeah, I mean, as far as a training, really the focus has been on developing people that can go and train them, train their own officers. So we we've been doing a lot of basic instructor, advanced instructor, firearms instructor, background investigation. So it's kind of been a focus on developing trainers across the state that can go back to their own agencies and train, train their people.
Speaker 2:We're updating our brochure. This is what this asshole did. So I sent him a text and I said hey brother, we're updating our brochure, can you send me? Asshole did so. I sent him a text and I said hey brother, we're updating our brochure. Can you send me the list of T Cole shit? If you've never looked at that, it is like 300 classes. There's a reason why it's class 3102, 3104. That means there's been 3100 classes. So I sent Jay a text and I said hey, I'm updating our brochure, like what had text. And I said hey, I'm updating our brochure. What do you want in there to give our members?
Speaker 3:He gets the hot ones the instructor class firearms instructor the sexy ones, yeah, the sexy.
Speaker 2:For a complete list, please visit tmpaorg backslash training. I was like, thank you. Thank you for that, sir. I know that I'm looking for the hot sheet.
Speaker 1:I mean, you asked what we offer. So yeah, tmpaorg backslash training man.
Speaker 2:It's a list of classes, but we partner with some pretty I mean immediately, and I think the workings were prior to you coming on, but I think you've solidified them and finalized them, you with the help of some field reps, but we've partnered with some pretty cool people thus far. Rdi, we're partnering somewhat to the extent it's not a partnership but with TTPOA. What other organizations have we partnered up with or going to or do you see in the near future, other than those?
Speaker 1:Other than those you know. I mean, I'd like to see you know assisting some of those, those organizations out there that that train Texas law enforcement, that may not have the ability to provide them the credit, so they're having to partner with other people to provide the training credit that they need to get it in. You know TCO reporting. I'd like to be able to bring those, some of those groups, in so, like you know, robbery Investigators of Texas I think they do a phenomenal job of training people. I attended their conference as a field rep last year and was able to sit in on a lot of the sessions. You know partner with them because they're not a training provider but being able to, you know, to partner up with them, providing excellent training, but then it's also a recruiting opportunity, right?
Speaker 1:So, while we're there, educate the members of YTMPA is where you want to go and where you want to be.
Speaker 3:Yeah, robbery investigators of Texas HIT Conference Homicide Investigators of Texas Do a phenomenal, phenomenal job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we already do the HIT. I think it's HIT right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And then we partnered with the Marshals Association this year. Not US Marshals, not US Marshals.
Speaker 2:School.
Speaker 1:Marshals School Marshals.
Speaker 2:Which, by the way, Fire Marshals actually. Yeah, Fire Marshals While I was updating the brochure. For those that don't know, our legal coverage has extended to school marshals and school guardian programs. Just for those that maybe listen, that are school guardians or school marshals. We do offer legal services to those out there, so if you have any questions, reach out to us at 1-800-848-2088. We can kind of give you a synopsis of that plan, but, man, I can't thank you enough for coming on. I appreciate it. We've got somebody else coming up here in the next few weeks that you've worked with and very much looking forward to her episode.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it's going to be a good good have you exam.
Speaker 1:I've watched every episode. I already know my answers. Here we go.
Speaker 2:Don't mess it up. I'm going to try. I've been studying what's your favorite line from a cop movie, or your favorite cop movie. I did it.
Speaker 1:Dang Nice, so the line that I'm going to go with is from Training Day. It's not what you know, it's what you can prove. That's true. So shout out. To shout out to Derek Spencer at Missouri city. That's a, that's his, that's our favorite line when I was in CID it's not what you know is what you can prove. So he'd come to me and say, look, this is what I got on this case. I'm going to tell you you don't have enough. I'm like it's not what you know, it's what we can prove.
Speaker 1:He's like you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2:All right, Denzel, Shout out to D on that one. What is your favorite cop?
Speaker 1:car Drum roll yeah so I actually have two. I came from the era of the Crown Vic, the Sheriff's Office. Crown Vics were way, way faster than the ones in Missouri city, so I don't know what. I don't know if there's like a different model that sheriff's office can buy, Cause you know you have to travel 200 miles in between calls. Um. But then as a patrol Sergeant I had a Tahoe that I really enjoyed, so I was able to pack everything that the officer would not have like pillows and blankets.
Speaker 1:Well, when you know when the when the officer calls you to the scene, it's usually not because I need the sergeant to provide wisdom. I need you to provide me the form Right right you know I forgot my print kit or whatever the case may be. But yeah, I mean the Crown Vic's a workhorse. It always has been a workhorse. No offense to the Caprice, I'm sure they would have been awesome. I no workhorse. No offense to the Caprice, I'm sure they would have been awesome. I just never had the opportunity to drive one.
Speaker 2:You don't have to explain it, that's cool.
Speaker 1:You guys missed out. Yeah, my guys. I feel like it listening to you tell us about them. What's your favorite drink of choice? Yeah, so bourbon on the rocks. There's a bourbon that's made in my area. It's called Gentle Ben. It's actually a bourbon that's run through a machine called the Gentle Ben and what it does is it removes impurities and you lose no volume or no alcohol content. Oh wow, so it was invented by a gentleman that actually is. He passed away recently, but he's from Pearland and he's named Ben.
Speaker 1:No, I think his father is actually the one that invented the gentle. It's called gentle the gentle Ben. Oh, it's a Ben, that's why no. Ben B-E-N. Gentle Ben. Was his dad named Ben, I think so. Ok, all right.
Speaker 2:I was trying to wrap my head around that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, he invented this contraption called the Gentle Bend, and then now they sell bourbon, vodka and gin that's run through this system, so it's super smooth.
Speaker 3:I'll have to try that. So is the bourbon a like. I like a drier. I hate sweet bourbon Is.
Speaker 1:Gentle Bend like a drier or a it's. I'm not a sweet person either, um, it's, I guess, if you want to call it dryer, um, but it that that gentle bend process takes that burn, that real harshness out of it makes it very smooth so they make one every barber and I've ever chased it that shit burns.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I can't i't?
Speaker 3:He says it burns, going in and coming out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I can't. I envy you guys. No, not angels envy, but I envy the fact that you guys can drink like bourbon on the road Bourbon. It sounds so masculine bourbon on the rocks.
Speaker 1:And I don't like it on just a big rock. I like the rocks because I like for it to melt.
Speaker 3:I realized that in DC because I was ordering on a big rock and you were like no.
Speaker 1:I don't want on a big rock, what's it?
Speaker 3:about that. It melts quicker for you.
Speaker 1:The ice just melts and dilutes it a little bit and just kind of brings out the flavor in the bourbon. So you know if you're not drinking. Gentle Ben, some of it can be harsh, depending on what you get in the well it. It could be harsh. So you know, the ice melts a little quicker, so it dilutes it a little bit and brings out some of the flavors.
Speaker 2:Cool, oh, and I'm celebrating. I like a little Diet Coke and Crown. Yeah, neat Is that neat.
Speaker 3:I thought you were going to say Miller 64 when you're celebrating. Neat is just in a glass. Oh yeah, On the rocks.
Speaker 2:I like Miller 64 neat. Hey man, I'm going to bust out that song one day and come out with the old school commercials of Miller 64. Sorry.
Speaker 1:Anyway, hey, you got anything else? No, that's it, man, I appreciate you all having me on. Look forward to the conference, look forward to bringing training. If you're interested in hosting training, training at tmpaorg, shoot us an email. We'll work to bring whatever class you want to host. If you identified an issue in your department and you want us to come train, let us know. Man. Training at tmpaorg.
Speaker 3:Cool. The advanced search and seizure he mentioned at conference is Anthony Bandiero. It's supposed to be incredible. Advanced search and seizure he mentioned at conference is Anthony Bandiero, it's supposed to be incredible. Advanced arrest, search and seizure. Tnpa FOP joint conference July 26th, 27th, 28th, hyatt Regency, dallas, at the Reunion Tower. There, we expect to see every one of you there.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Do you think I'll ever get to teach arrest, search and seizure, or is that probably something that y'all just identified that I probably wasn't going to be good?
Speaker 1:at yeah, the TFO experience, yeah that's probably not a good idea.
Speaker 3:I'm going to go with that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're going to leave it at that, alright. Hey, you guys, be safe, take care, look forward to seeing you all at conference. I think this about wraps it up again. Tmpaorg for the training schedule. As Jay said, we are going to come out with a new brochure of all the courses that we offer, not a full list, because I don't want to be tied up to a computer writing all that information. So, guys, take care, stay safe, god bless you and, as always, may God bless Texas. Thank you.