#081- "Generations to Come" with Lon Craft

Curious about a day in the life of a law enforcement officer? Join us as Lon Craft, former president of the Texas Municipal Police Association (TMPA), shares his journey—from adrenaline-pumping chases to the camaraderie and evolving police hiring processes. Lon discusses his career, from growing up in Orange, Texas, to his impactful role in the Baytown Police Department, including his work in narcotics and efforts to improve officers' pay and conditions. He reflects on the importance of memorials for fallen officers, the legislative process, and the strong bonds within the TMPA. Tune in for stories about iconic cop cars, favorite movies, and bourbon choices.

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Email us at: bluegrit@tmpa.org

Transcript

Speaker 1 0:02

we got separated and he's chasing one guy, I'm chasing another guy, they, you know, they split and I tackle mine. He's calling me on the back channel. He's like where you at. I said, man, I had no idea I'm gonna drag this guy to the street corner and read the street sign, tell you where. I had no clue. And uh, that's what I did.

Speaker 2 0:19

I drug him up somewhere between arkansas and louisiana, somewhere between Arkansas and.

Speaker 3 0:24

Louisiana. Hey Blue Grip Podcast. We're back this week. Your co-host Clint McNair.

Speaker 2 0:29

And Tyler Owen. What's up? Man living the dream Football season is here, super excited in volleyball. Just sports, sports, sports. Being a dad and busy with work, what about you? Same.

Speaker 3 0:43

How was your drive down? It was good. I left Forney at 5.30 this morning and slid in here about just in the–. I followed the speed limit and got here at the appropriate time.

Speaker 2 0:57

I will tell you this that driving in my opinion I've had some road time before, but driving at that 4 to 8 o'clock where you can kind of see the world wake up, of course that was my favorite time on patrol anyway that is, oh my God, and especially the route you're coming, because you can really start seeing the hills right about Waco South.

Speaker 3 1:14

Well, salado, I guess Sun's coming up. Oh, that's great, not much traffic.

Speaker 2 1:19

But you love Austin, so you love coming to Austin. I love.

Speaker 3 1:21

Austin. It's amazing.

Speaker 2 1:22

It kind of fits your personality I love the politics, I love it.

Speaker 3 1:25

Yeah, you're sick, yeah.

Speaker 2 1:28

Well, we have got a guest on today, lawn Craft, past president of TMPA, and you've got a lot of knowledge about this organization, but you've done some pretty cool things and you're just a constant contributor to a lot of charities with TMPA, and so we want to bring you on and talk about why that is and and really the mission behind it.

Speaker 1 1:50

So thank you very much for having me on. I appreciate it and love, I love the podcast. I listen to it all the time, and especially on my morning walks. And I agree with you my favorite time on patrol was when the city was waking up. You know, you get to a spot and you can see the city wake up and it was pretty cool because it kind of sounds corny, but it was like they're waking up because we were here tonight you know, so we were on duty. They're waking up and I'm heading home to go to bed.

Speaker 3 2:22

That's it, yeah.

Speaker 2 2:24

I liked going or at least going by the donut shops and just getting little donut holes, because it was like the sugar rush that would last me until I got off shift and then I would go crawl in bed.

Speaker 1 2:33

No, we all piled up and had some Kentucky tea. Oh, that's right.

Speaker 2 2:39

You were the generation of the choir practice.

Speaker 1 2:40

Yeah, we had choir practice every morning. You just confirmed for all of our non-cop listeners at cops eat donuts you just locked that in.

Speaker 2 2:52

See, I don't like donuts, sorry, yeah, it's on you.

Speaker 2 2:54

Well, uh, for our listeners or or pmp members, that that don't know, you know, amazes me really.

Speaker 2 2:58

And you, you can probably testify to this long that they're members of the association but they don't really truly understand like the dynamics and and how the board works and how the staff kind of intermingle.

Speaker 2 3:10

And man, the past presidents and I was I was talking to you actually one time uh, some of these guys have served on the board for 12, 13, 14 years and then and they're heavily involved right with the not day-to-day operations, but you guys meet quarterly and you guys set the guidelines of kind of where they want to see the organization go. And then our executive director, you give him essentially the order Well, I guess orders and then we're supposed to follow those. And then when you're kind of a past president, you remain on the board one year and then it's just kind of like, yeah, you're gone, and then it's just kind of like you're gone and some go do things in life and some remain a part of the association. But it's interesting to me because a lot of you guys before we even had field reps you and Jimmy De Los Santos would drive around, fill up your trucks and go attract members before we even had employees, and so there's a lot to be said about that.

Speaker 1 4:03

I drove to El el paso to meet one member from baytown one time, wow, when I was on the board. Yeah and uh, we signed him up thankfully uh kevin kevin. Kevin lawrence showed up and kevin and I met with him. Uh, we had dinner and I turned around, drove back to baytown because I had to work shift next day wow, yep so.

Speaker 1 4:21

But yeah, we, you know, when we were on the board it's not like it is today we didn't have the member, there was 8,000 members, the budget was less than a million and you know, we took turns at times coming up here and answering phones. We didn't have field reps the way we did now, and so we went. People would call, kevin would call and say, hey, I can y'all go so and so and and meet these people. Okay, we'll go, you know that's what we did.

Speaker 2 4:54

That's cool well, we generally like to start off each podcast by kind of giving a background of of where you grew up and then where you, how you got in law enforcement, and then what was your introduction to tmpa, and then kind of navigate through that path. Who the hell is Long? Where were you?

Speaker 1 5:08

born. I was born and raised in Orange, Texas. It's on the border of Louisiana.

Speaker 3 5:14

Is that where?

Speaker 1 5:14

Jimmy Johnson's from. He's from Port Arthur. Bum, Phillips and Wade were from Orange. They're my cousins and, uh, distant and um, you know, we, we, we grew up in a small town of orange and spent a lot of time Southwest Louisiana and Southeast Texas. I mean that we had to. The Sabine river was a great friend growing up. We had, we had a lot of fun. I, for some reason, I always wanted to be a cop. That's all I ever wanted to do was be a cop, even in like middle school oh yeah yeah, I knew it, I knew it from get, I mean it just.

Speaker 1 5:53

And it turns out that my fourth great grandfather was one of the first texas rangers. Wow, uh, absalom jet was his, uh, he, he grew up there in orange and his son was a town Marshall was killed in line duty. Um, and so it just. You know, it just seemed natural.

Speaker 3 6:15

Well, it is true there.

Speaker 1 6:16

Yeah and um, so I, I. I grew up and and I started my career in orange County Sheriff's Department in 1986. How old were you? 20.

Speaker 3 6:28

What did you do after high school?

Speaker 1 6:31

Well, I went to Sam Houston for a year. They still talk about that year, so you know I saw more Texas than I did a classroom, because I didn't really want to go.

Speaker 2 6:39

I think Charlie Robinson has a song about that.

Speaker 1 6:41

Yeah, it fits, yeah, but you know, it was just something I always wanted to do. I went back home and went to work and my dad would meet me at Walmart to buy the bullets for the gun I could legally carry but I couldn't buy bullets for because I wasn't 21. And then I worked the streets for about six months before I went to the academy. You know, you didn't have to go to the academy right out of the bat.

Speaker 3 7:07

That was still at the SO.

Speaker 1 7:09

Yeah, at the.

Speaker 3 7:10

SO. Didn't have to start in the jail back then.

Speaker 1 7:12

No, I started in the jail, worked in jail for about a month and then transferred out and they gave me a penal code and a transportation code book they were two different books at the time and said go and send them more and we'll call you when we need you and read them books and go do something. Yeah. And so I had a good.

Speaker 1 7:31

I had a good friend of mine named Cliff Hargrave, and and he was in the same boat and we we lived in an apartment complex behind each other. I had one, he you know and so we worked totally opposite shifts. We worked those, uh, 12-hour shifts and you, you work 14 days a month, so you had that long time off.

Speaker 1 7:50

You know, seven days off and look farming oh yeah, it was, it was bad and uh, so I would ride with cliff, or cliff would ride with me, and and we'd, we'd go through the book. We'd see a car like something don't look right. We pulled it over and whoever was getting paid drove. Whoever wasn't rode in the past, and you go through the book and you found something you get out. If you didn't find something, you just told them slow down or something you know so holy shit, we didn't know, you know yeah, we'd never been.

Speaker 1 8:18

And so then we went to. I went to the academy and lamar university. Gary duncan was the academy director.

Speaker 3 8:24

What year was that?

Speaker 1 8:24

1987, may of 87. And it was 400 hours, 480 hours, it was 480. They added 80 hours for PT and Jimmy Singletary was who I think he's still chief at Beaumont now. He was the PT instructor. Wow, and it was interesting so I can, I can imagine well, I can remember being in there and they saying you can't do what, what, what do you mean? You can't do that. We just did that last night, you know, when we were working.

Speaker 3 8:54

So I was just about to say it'd be weird going to the academy after you've already been working the streets oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, because like when we went through they could have told me anything because I had zero. I had nothing to compare it to. It would be weird to work street and then go to the academy and them trying to tell you what.

Speaker 1 9:09

Yeah, and thank God they changed the law to where you had to be 21 and you had to go to the academy first. I mean, that was kind of stupid if you really think about it, but we had a good time, we made it. Looking back, it's like how you know, I don't know how we made it, how long were you at this?

Speaker 1 9:30

I was there until well. I got fired. The entire department got fired because the sheriff I worked for went to prison for making methamphetamines, and you can't do that as a sheriff. No, the federal government kind of frowned on that. I get you. It was like a 43-count indictment and they found him guilty on 42 counts.

Speaker 2 9:53

What'd that day look?

Speaker 1 9:54

like Well, you know, he actually was up for re-election and went to a runoff. He almost won re-election, while under federal indictment. It was crazy that is crazy I bet when you're hopped up. You can campaign like crazy beating on doors and yeah, well, no, he, he, I don't think he was, he was. He was getting kicked back from the dealers so if you didn't pay, then we'd run a search warrant on you.

Speaker 2 10:21

You know it was amazing did y'all suspect that anything was going on?

Speaker 1 10:24

no, no, no, I was. I was the pio at the time and, uh, the reason we broke this gentleman's knees. Yeah well, I get this phone call from a reporter that said what? What would you say if I told you that the fbi and dea, the FBI and DEA, were at jail, and I think it was Jasper County or Newton County. Mike Hozapfel was the sheriff up there, so it was Newton County.

Speaker 2 10:52

That is backwards backwards.

Speaker 3 10:55

Yeah, it must have been Newton County, because there's no crime in Jasper County.

Speaker 1 10:57

Yeah. And so he said what would you say if they're interviewing a guy and he's claiming that he was making meth for your sheriff? I said I'll have to call you back.

Speaker 3 11:14

I would love to see a young lawn craft as a PIO.

Speaker 2 11:17

Oh yeah. Can you imagine oh yeah, is this a test?

Speaker 1 11:21

Yeah, so I called the chief.

Speaker 2 11:25

This was after they had me. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, is this a test? Yeah, so I called the chief. This was after the academy. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, this was 1987 or 88. Oh two years experience.

Speaker 1 11:35

So I actually had the law enforcement. Explorers were part of my job and they were there when the phone rang, so I sent them home. I called the chief, we went to, we went to counting as we're walking out the. The agents were walking out and they were like, what are you doing here? I said, well, what are you doing here? And I'm like, oh my Lord, it's real. And that was the start of the nightmare. Wow, damn, the first time I ever testified in court was a federal grand jury in Beaumont, texas.

Speaker 2 12:06

Against your boss. I was 22 years old. Golly, that'll make you a man.

Speaker 1 12:12

Yeah, it was interesting. Then I went to Baytown and stayed there for a long time.

Speaker 3 12:19

So the whole sworn at the SO got let go.

Speaker 1 12:22

Everybody except for two Harvey Barron, and I can't think of the other guys that. But harvey was on like his fifth sheriff at the time. He was, uh, he was the only guy that did civil papers and uh, harvey was a great guy, I liked him and uh, then they started. After it all settled, they started bringing people back. I had already gone to work at Baytown by that time. Did you leave there and go straight to Baytown? I did, after it took about nine months to go through the process and all that.

Speaker 3 12:54

That's one thing for our listeners. It's changed now, I think, for a number of reasons, probably technology and manpower. People are desperate for manpower, but back in the day it would take seven, eight, nine, ten months to get hired on at a police department respectable, oh yeah, police department, yeah yeah, somebody said what would you do? Um, when he got out of the marines, I was like, well, I built pipe fences on the ranches. And they're like why?

Speaker 1 13:21

I said because it took like nine or ten months to get hired on at a pd, especially a civil service department, because you had to take the test and then you had, you know, you had all the background and then you had the interviews and all that poly and yeah, that's weird nowadays people are like trying to ramrod it through because they're so desperate for I wonder what that, what the, I guess average time is now three months, you think, probably from start to finish.

Speaker 3 13:45

I'm hearing some departments are super streamlined in it, especially with lateral entry programs and all that stuff, but used to like nine or ten months was the norm it was the norm.

Speaker 2 13:53

It's crazy, yep. Well, so you went to Baytown.

Speaker 1 13:56

I went to Baytown. Had a pretty good career there.

Speaker 2 14:01

Yeah, I retired as a sergeant. You had a lot of narcotic experience I hear I did From the past few ages, A bit different than your sheriff's narcotic experience?

Speaker 1 14:06

Yeah, I was on the other side. Yeah, I spent three years at the Harris County Organized Crime Narcotics Task Force, assigned there from Baytown, and that was a lot of fun, got a lot of experience, did a lot of stuff with DEA and got to do a lot of things.

Speaker 3 14:25

Yeah, so it was a lot of fun. Baytown make you go back through an academy or they accept your experience they accepted it.

Speaker 1 14:30

Cool, uh didn't have to go. I had to go through a um, an fto, to learn the city ordinances and the city.

Speaker 1 14:39

I remember my first night. They I was on graveyards and my fto was a guy named ken terry he's a good guy and friend of mine and we got separated in old baytown and it was the state streets and he's chasing one guy, I'm chasing another guy, they, you know, they split and I tackle mine and he's calling me on the back channel. Back then then we had four channels. You had two that were on repeater and then two that were car-to-car. And so he's calling me on the back channel and he's like where are you at? I said, man, I have no idea. I'm going to drag this guy to the street corner and read the street sign and tell you where I am. I had no clue and that's what I did. I drug him up, I did.

Speaker 1 15:22

I drug him up, I'm somewhere between Arkansas and Louisiana, so that was my first night in Baytown.

Speaker 3 15:31

Working. I knew you had a lot of dope experience Back then. Was it CI stuff or did you do a lot of UC stuff?

Speaker 1 15:36

Did a lot of UC when I was at the Organized Crime Unit. We did a lot of UC stuff and we worked both CIs and did the UC. What did you like better I the uc stuff did you. Yeah, I like, I like the. Uh, the challenge what's the?

Speaker 3 15:52

what's the stickiest situation you had as undercover we?

Speaker 1 15:55

were doing a uh, a buy bust on a kilo. And, uh, my partner and I went into this apartment and it was over off of Telephone Road in Houston and we give the by-bus signal you know I'm wearing a wire and nothing happens, and so it's getting a little tense. You know they're like why are you still here? And so we're talking about anything we can think of and finally the door kicks in and here comes the calvary and I looked at him. I got like what the hell? He said, uh, tim pettigrew looked at me and he said uh, do you realize? There's nine buildings in this apartment complex and they all have a four? Oh, they kicked in six doors before they got to us process of elimination.

Speaker 1 16:49

Yeah, it got a little intense, I'm sure it did yeah, I'm sure it did.

Speaker 2 16:54

How long were you on that unit?

Speaker 1 16:55

three years, three, see 92 to 95. Okay, 1992 to 95.

Speaker 2 17:00

So you've gone from warrens county significant issues there and then go to now baytown, yeah, which is now one of the best, well, the highest paid also.

Speaker 1 17:10

Well, that across the texas and that that that has um keith daughtery was the. He was the president of the local. He later became chief and then um, mike um, took over, and then I was president of the local and then aaron crowell came in, who is a tmpa past president, and, uh, they changed. We changed the, the payroll, um the. We got collective bargaining and it. You know, when I left Baytown in 2011, sergeants were making like $125.

Speaker 2 17:53

Yeah, it is one of the most high. But let's go back real quick about your involvement. How did you get intro to the Baytown? I think it's the Baytown Municipal Patrolmen's Association. Yeah, bmpa, when we got there it was run by the chief, the association was yeah, wow, the president and the board was handpicked by the chief.

Speaker 1 18:19

Wow, and so me and a bunch of us it wasn't just me, there were several of us that we tried to form a new local, a separate local, and bring TMPA in, because I was the only TMPA member at Orange County. They were members of the Paper Workers Union or something like that.

Speaker 2 18:43

Yeah, that's right. I remember Kevin talking about that I was.

Speaker 1 18:46

I was the only. I was the only guy. I joined in 86 when I joined because I don't even know why I got a. I got a flyer or I saw a flyer or something I'm like.

Speaker 3 18:55

Well, this sounds good so I did that sounds better than the paper hangers yeah and uh, so it was interesting.

Speaker 1 19:02

So when I got to Baytown, you know, I rejoined because I had dropped after I got fired and, uh, we tried to form our own association, with hindsight being, we we should just took over the original one, which is what we ended up doing, cause that the the union didn't last very long, right, um so, and then we voted them out, put in a new board uh, mike Holden and and Keith were the uh leaders of that and then I became the president. Um, and I was president for a long time and, um, while I was president here I was when I was on the board here, I was still president of the local what?

Speaker 2 19:48

what prompted you to get involved with tmpa's uh politics and what? Was there a need there? Somebody approach you about it?

Speaker 1 19:55

no, actually I got a the, the magazine that used to get mailed out I think it's emailed now, but it used to be mailed out and I read an article. Kevin lawrence was the region two director at the time that's how long ago it was and I read an article he had written and I said I'm going to have his job one day. Seriously, I told my wife, I said I'm going to be on this board and my first conference was in San Angelo and I hadn't. I think I missed one since because I got bit by a brown recruits fighter and I couldn't walk. I was on the board then.

Speaker 3 20:41

Yeah Well, crew spliter and I couldn't walk. Uh, I was on the board then, so, yeah, well, well, uh, what year did?

Speaker 1 20:44

you get on uh become region two director.

Speaker 2 20:45

Oh be 2000, I think 2000 was that a contested race for anything, or did you yeah?

Speaker 1 20:52

it. Um, actually I never became the region director. I was an at-large, that's right. I got elected as an at-large in 2000. Okay, so yeah, me and Wade Daniels won that year.

Speaker 3 21:07

Wade Daniels plain OPD Plain OPD.

Speaker 2 21:10

So you were on the board for quite some time.

Speaker 1 21:12

Yeah, I was on the board for a while I was president. I got elected president in 07, okay, and I was like I served two terms as president and then uh which is rare for those that don't don't know.

Speaker 3 21:25

Yeah it's weird. I thought like there was only one or two, but when I got to looking back, there's been there's been probably six or seven two-term presidents yeah, jerome, jerome served too well jerome was president for two years and, uh, then I followed jerome.

Speaker 2 21:40

Johnny rod was, I think, two years johnny rodriguez, thomas brown and kevin lawrence, I think yeah and uh, I think um, yeah, I think so yeah, so you, you served on the board as president and obviously you kind of go into the role of past president.

Speaker 2 22:01

But, just like I said before, some guys that were past presidents, again they go on and live their life and they're not that that's against anything. I mean, they're more than welcome to stay involved. But you and some others really have stayed involved and seen. You know not the turning point, but just see how TMPA is also involved and improved over the last many years. What has really driven you number one, stay involved but be so supportive of the memorial and things that you identified or at least went through whenever you did serve on the board.

Speaker 1 22:33

Well, you know the memorial is a big part for me because my great-great-great-grandfather's on the wall, his son's on the wall. I've had a. You know we had a Baytown officer, bobby Paul. He passed. He was killed in the line of duty. He's the only line of duty death in Baytown. He's on the wall.

Speaker 3 22:59

Baytown only has one line of duty Only has one.

Speaker 1 23:02

Wow I would not have thought that, yeah, only has one, thankfully, wow.

Speaker 3 23:09

And I don't mean that negatively, but Baytown's rough. Baytown's a busy city.

Speaker 1 23:19

It was the wild, wild west in the 90s. Yeah, we, we led the nation per capita in drive-by shootings in 92 and 93.

Speaker 2 23:22

It's very much like garland, like the way I kind of get the feel of it right there on the suburb, and it's just kind of always had that it's a town full of grit, yep well, and to me and we had a.

Speaker 1 23:31

We had a huge influx of people from new Orleans after Katrina, yeah, and there was lots of gang related violence, uh, trying to establish turf, you know from the people that fled, yeah, so, but you know the we've had agencies near us that have lost officers.

Speaker 1 23:56

Um, I was there, you know. I was at the search warrant when Pasadena lost an officer less early. It's just something that it's hard to talk about, but it means a lot. I've had good friends that were canine officers and I saw what the canines can do, you know, and how they um help and save. In the dedication, of the handlers.

Speaker 3 24:30

The dedication of the handler time commitment.

Speaker 1 24:33

and so when we talked about um doing a canine memorial and we spent three or four years talking about it and there was no funding, and it just kind of really got under my skin that nobody seemed to really care or do anything. And so, at at the at that time, um, we were blessed to to have the means, and so we, we, uh, we donated $50,000 to the canine Memorial to have it built.

Speaker 2 25:08

Incredible we're still going through the process.

Speaker 1 25:10

Yeah.

Speaker 2 25:11

And one of the things I've always liked about you and loved about you is the fact that you you, after your presidency and your past president again some, some, a lot of the board time that you had on there. There weren't many employees. Uh, there weren't so and to include a legislative team to be at the Capitol. And so, uh, you later worked with temp, worked for TMP as a, as a legislative liaison.

Speaker 1 25:34

You read that worked for TNPA as a legislative liaison.

Speaker 2 25:35

That damn near killed me and so, which is probably where you got your knowledge about no funding for the K-9, and you probably had a better understanding of kind of how that works, and so I think you and several others worked to kind of lobby for that and so he had been in the works for some time. Thanks to you and some other efforts, yeah, and it was, you know, when I spent the time.

Speaker 1 25:58

I spent three sessions working for TNPA as the lobbyist and I learned a lot. I learned how the thing worked, you know the process worked and we passed some really good bills. We got the. You know, ashley Hardy came to me with cops concerns of police survivors and we passed that bill that increased the amount that they got and the fact that they could remarry and because, for those that don't know, originally the state would take care of the surviving spouses of fallen law enforcement officers that were killed in the line of duty. But if they remarried it all stopped and it's like why, you know, because most of them don't.

Speaker 1 26:48

Yeah, they get penalized right, and so most of them don't. Some did, and we shouldn't penalize them for that. It just sat wrong with me, and Representative Guerin carried that bill for us out of Fort Worth and he got it passed and it was a good bill.

Speaker 2 27:14

I was proud of that bill. There's some bills you just look at and you're like this just sense yeah, and that's one of them.

Speaker 3 27:19

It just makes sense, you know there was there was a time just to get field reps experience to give him some support. They said, hey, if you want to go down the capital, you go down and help. So I called lawn. I'm like, hey, I'm going to come down every couple of weeks for a week at a time, or every other week or something. So what do I need to do is like, most important, wear comfortable shoes, because we're going to walk a lot. And I'm like, whatever, yeah, Holy crap.

Speaker 3 27:46

Yeah, I learned quickly. Go buy some freaking shoes, that I'm telling you. You can't imagine how much you freaking walk and I'm following along behind him where we're going now. We got to go meet with the senator and talk about this, I'm like, and it would be all day. Then you go to dinners to try and continue meetings, or yeah, that's where I was going to pick up on and that's when the real stuff happens. That's when it all happened. You can get a chief of staff or a senator at dinner. That's when you actually have them, because during the day they're on the floor or they're so busy. But trying to chase this guy around for 14 hours a day, Jesus man and he jokingly said that it almost killed him.

Speaker 2 28:23

And for those out there that are members or are not members or not associated with law enforcement, but I just wanted to process that we've all been at a shift party, whether you're a cop or not, at some type of employment party, where you've got this awkward relationship with a co-worker and the minute you and him or her open that beer or break bread together, there's a sense of just instant relatability, and so you had to do that seven days a week and you had to do it during the off-season, during off-session time. And so I can imagine, because you've've got, how many state reps are there? 160, there's a lot there's a lot.

Speaker 1 29:02

A third of them are in harris county.

Speaker 2 29:03

Yeah, yeah, so I had to form those relationships and go out every night and have you know, have a whiskey drink, because that's probably majority of what. What are some of them? So I can imagine I'm sure it was.

Speaker 1 29:14

Uh. And then and then, when the session was over, I would call it my texas tour. I would, you know, take a trip and meet everybody in in their districts, right and uh, that was. I put a lot of miles on a truck yeah, I can imagine those six years so put a lot of miles on them. Legs too yeah, I would. Uh, I had two pair of boots I wore that were very comfortable, and I'd have them resold twice during the session.

Speaker 2 29:39

Wow, that's a lot.

Speaker 1 29:41

Yeah, I wore the leather out. That's a lot.

Speaker 2 29:43

Well, I know that your passion and heart definitely is in the memorial to include the Canine Memorial and hopefully one day we can all sit and watch that be constructed and sit on the beautiful Capitol grounds. But another passion of yours is to carry on the legacy, uh, of TMP charities. Uh, yes, you know that's a you've been, you've, you've always maintained a good part of that.

Speaker 1 30:03

We we do the scholarships, yeah, uh, when, when we lost Dick Brock he's a good friend of mine, um, and when I was, dick was also a past president at the NPA and when I was president I would call Dick a lot and just bounce things off of him and him and Bill Elkin, and they were my sounding board.

Speaker 1 30:30

And that's one of the reasons why Trey Morris and Jimmy De Los Santos and I and several others stay involved is so we can be those sounding boards for the new generation of board members and they do call and they do ask questions and we you know I love Bill Elkin to death because I would call Bill and I would tell him I've got this thing. It's like when we tried to do the merger in 08. And I called Bill and I said, what do you think I should do? And he said, well, what do you want? What are you thinking? And I would just tell him everything and he said, well, I think you've answered your question and I'd hang up the phone and I'd go he didn't answer my question again.

Speaker 1 31:15

He made me you know, he just had that talent to where you'd talk it out and he would just listen. And then, well, I think you found your answer. You just wanted that support. I just wanted, I just wanted to talk to somebody that had been there, that that knew that, you know chewed some of the same dirt, so to speak.

Speaker 2 31:34

That's an East Texas phrase for you.

Speaker 1 31:38

That's cool. So that's what we want to do with the current board members. So when we lost Dick, my wife and I decided that we would create a $5,000 scholarship the Dick Brock Memorial Scholarship every year. And then, you know, we were blessed with having the ability to do it. So we created a past president's $5,000 scholarship. So the goal is for me I want to continue giving that money to TMmpa charities for the scholarships so at some point, because currently what happens is I give twenty five thousand dollars to the charities, tmpa matches to 25 for the scholarships and we give like 22 or 23 scholarships every year. So what we got to talking about was let's increase the amount that we give and at some point, with Katie's financial wizardry, she can invest that money and it grows to where TMPA Charities doesn't have to match. It's its own fund, it's self-funded and we can use that $25,000 that TMPA Charities does to help some other officers in another way. So I would like to challenge all the locals to donate to the scholarship fund and grow it.

Speaker 1 33:17

It's going to them yeah it's for their kids and we have. Bertha Roop is the chairman of the scholarship fund.

Speaker 2 33:27

Former Dallas County Sheriff's, now Dallas County Constable.

Speaker 1 33:30

I believe, I think you're right. I think she's been there for like 30 years, 37 years.

Speaker 2 33:37

Bertha was my DTO at Dallas County, really Dallas County Sheriff, I think she's been there for like 30 years 37 years. Martha was my DTO at Dallas County Really Dallas County Sheriff's Office. Yeah, she was my training officer there.

Speaker 1 33:43

Well, she takes to heart on the scholarships and there's two or three others that join us, and so it's a lot of work it is we have. She has tried to. I think what we're going to do this year is meet before conference and get those done so the $5,000 scholarship winners can be invited to conference. There will be time to get them there if possible, to get them there if possible, and also we may get some more volunteers to help, because they won't miss any training.

Speaker 2 34:25

That's the big thing and that's one of the things. You don't have to be a board member in order to be involved with scholarships. Tmpa's got, I think, five or six committees that you can volunteer for and they're chosen by the president after conference, if I'm not mistaken. But you can be on the scholarship committee, you can be on the legislative committee, you can be involved. So again, I recommend that if you guys are looking at getting more involved with TMPA on that level, man, the committees we have is a great way to do that well, I I would suggest actually coming to ledge day um or being on the legislative committee so you can see how important, because I hear it all the time.

Speaker 1 35:10

Members will say you know? Officers will say why, why do I care what happens at at ledge? Well, everything that you have the power to do comes from the pink dome.

Speaker 3 35:19

Yeah, everything but the other misnomer is well, how come y'all didn't get that bill passed, because all you do is file it yeah, no you just file it let me tell you something.

Speaker 1 35:30

When, when I started, mario martinez was was one of my legend yeah, he was one of my mentors and he told me he said, look, you can write all the bills you want to write. And he was impressed. One day I wrote a bill for Senator Whitmer on a napkin. I did, I wrote it out, gave it to Whitmer's staff and they sent sent it to ledge counsel and they got it filed. It was on truancy, because there was an incident where a valedictorian was arrested as she walked off after giving her speech because she had missed so many days as, like a freshman.

Speaker 3 36:17

Oh God.

Speaker 1 36:17

Because it was a single, she had a single mom and she had to take care of the kids. You know that, that kind of thing and it was valedictorian. And she was valedictorian, so I think she made up for it.

Speaker 3 36:28

Right yeah.

Speaker 1 36:29

And so he uh. To his credit, senator Whitmer said what, what? How can we fix that? To his credit, senator Whitmer said how can we fix that? I said well, why don't you just write a bill that says if they're 16 years old or younger, and there's a warrant for truancy when they turn 17,. It's null and void. And it was funny, because I'll never forget. He said we can do that.

Speaker 3 37:02

I said well, you can, I can't, you can yeah.

Speaker 1 37:06

We, we, what would that look like? So I wrote it out, Mario's, like you just wrote that out, I said well, you know, if you can, I tell people all the time if you can write a search warrant, if you can write a probable cause affidavit, you can write a bill. There's not much difference, but that's the easy part right, that's the easy part, people don't understand the challenges and the legwork.

Speaker 1 37:27

Mario would always tell me. He said you write a bill it's going to take three sessions. That's why I was so impressed with the COPS bill. We passed it in the first session. Wow, it got passed the first session.

Speaker 3 37:39

The auto theft, the trailer theft bill I wrote for Grand Prairie that was passed in one session and those bills we have filed the whole time. I've been here 14 years in like a lead investigator bill, the lead investigator bill.

Speaker 1 38:03

We got the closest we ever got in 13. That was the closest we ever got. It actually went to the floor and passed the House and it died in the Senate.

Speaker 3 38:13

But for our members, man, if you ever have a passion to come down and see how the sausage is made, it is shocking. It's ugly, it's shocking. Chasing him around for 14 hours a day was was bad. Wrapping my tiny brain around. Well, I thought you just file a bill and then it just gets passed. Learning, learning man, filing the bills, the bills is the easy part.

Speaker 1 38:40

So for the process, you file a bill and then you have to have a sponsor, you have to have somebody that's willing to file a bill. So they carry the bill and they file it. It goes to committee. So then you got to lobby the committee to get it put on the chair, to put it on the schedule for the committee. So it'll have a committee hearing. So then it has a hearing and then you got to lobby the committee to vote it out of the out of the committee.

Speaker 1 39:06

And then it goes to calendars. Well, calendars, that's a whole nother animal. You got to lobby calendars, because it only takes one to red flag it and that bill's dead. So you get it out of calendars. It goes to the floor. Then you got to lobby the entire house, or at least the majority of the house, to to pass the bill. So it passes. Let's just say it passes the house. Well, then it starts all over in the Senate and it goes to committee in the Senate. Okay, so then you've got to lobby the committee. You get it passed out of the Senate. It goes to the Senate calendar.

Speaker 2 39:45

And what's shitty is that the whole time all that's going on, you may have another bill that may take precedence, that may kill the one you were working on, and so the two months you've been working on Bill 1, you know that it's for the safety of it, because we have bills that benefit law enforcement and then you have bills that are priority for their safety.

Speaker 1 40:08

And so you may have to kill Bill one in order to pass Bill two, and so it's just a challenge, well, and process. And then when it's on the floor, yeah, they can add amendments. Yeah, and you may end up killing your own bill because of the amendments that were added. That's when it gets sporty, yeah, that's that's when it gets really fun, and the the closer it gets to sunny dye, yeah, it's even worse. So what you do is you have a house sponsor and a Senate sponsor and you push it at the same time.

Speaker 3 40:34

And those 20 steps Lon just mentioned. It can dye at any one of those steps. Oh yeah. So you're nervous as a cat in a rocking chair factory the whole time because you're like, ooh, I finally got it past step one. Okay, now they're going to kill it. Step two oh crap, now they're going to kill it. Step three I was talking to JW.

Speaker 2 40:53

They were on the podcast a couple weeks ago and I don't know what state rep, what senator we can get to get on board with this, but I personally me and Clint have had this conversation in depth. I would love to see some type of piece of legislation come out that sheriffs, judges, anybody in the criminal justice system, cannot be party affiliated. The mayors aren't, yeah, but we'll see what happens.

Speaker 1 41:18

It'll never happen.

Speaker 2 41:20

That's just Tyler Owen. I'm not speaking for TMPA because we've got another legislative agenda that we need to get passed, but, yeah, I'd like to see that happen.

Speaker 1 41:27

We'll see, well, and the lieutenant governor was big on that for the judges, at least at one point. I don't know where he stands now. I haven't had a conversation with him in several years, but yeah, it would be nice. It's different, but the ledge session is. It's actually a sausage grinder, yep.

Speaker 1 41:52

And it's ugly. It is, and part of the problem is a lot of people don't understand. Is the house can't take up any bills for like the first 100 days, right? Is the House can't take up any bills for like the first 100 days, Right?

Speaker 3 42:11

All they're doing is memorials and feel-good stuff.

Speaker 1 42:14

So the Senate can, the Senate does, and they send over a bunch. And then if you've got a House member and a Senate member that get pissed off at each other, and then the House isn't going to pass any bills from this guy, so the Senate's not going to pass any bills from this guy. And if you've picked those people as your sponsors, you're screwed, you've lost your bills.

Speaker 3 42:32

That sounds familiar, yeah, it does.

Speaker 1 42:36

I mean it's a lot like being in middle school.

Speaker 2 42:39

It is it's crazy, yep. Or trying to date your ex-wife, or something it's, it's. It's a challenge, yeah, it's touchy.

Speaker 3 42:47

I mean it's sensitive, it's I didn't. I didn't mean it snarky, but I mean it's a delicate navigating those relationships because you you make one guy mad that maybe was going to help your bill and it's another bill that he's not going to like, yep, then you're trying to measure. Well, I really need this guy.

Speaker 1 43:08

But now I've it's a really.

Speaker 3 43:12

Or you get a co-sponsor and then you find out later he has another bill that's almost anti or not good for police. You can't kill his bill. Then he's going to kill your bill, right, it's delicate.

Speaker 1 43:22

And they'll do that on purpose, oh yeah, and then if your sponsor is out of favor with the speaker or the like of it ain't going to be heard. It's delicate, you know. So it's a dance, yeah.

Speaker 3 43:40

That's what I should have said it's a delicate dance. It is Not dating your ex-wife. What I should have said it's a delicate dance. No, it is not dating your ex-wife.

Speaker 1 43:44

I should have said it's a delicate dance and I understand what you're saying. Yeah, I mean it.

Speaker 3 43:49

Just, you know it is what it is, but Well, your, your service in the ledge was, was, is awesome, but the legacy you're leaving behind with the canine memorial, the scholarships remembering Dick Brock, the legacy that you're building outshines even the great ledge work you did, because that's something that 30 years from now, 40 years from now when we're gone, that people are still going to remember and still that's an incredible legacy to leave.

Speaker 2 44:20

Thank you, I'll say this too. I was able to go to a birthday party. We were going to do a podcast that ended up getting scraped because of the computer issue At your birthday party was it your 60th?

Speaker 1 44:34

No, no, no, it wasn't mine, it was Trey's. That's right. That's right, it was Trey's. It was a retirement party. It was a retirement party, trey's retirement party and mine's only 40. Yeah, I'm sorry, yeah, I started when I was 12.

Speaker 2 44:47

But if you looking back on it, I mean, you kept referring to many people as family, as family, as family and I've only worked for TMPA for seven years and I was telling Clint this the other day it's like the culture within the board and even the field reps, it's shared by so many outside of that, that circle. But I mean, ultimately, a lot of your family was there, that's all tmpa, yeah, and I just remember driving back going man, there's, there's uh, it's cool to watch you involved and it's cool to see you be able to lead those legacies and so I wish that podcast had survived because it would be a legacy in itself.

Speaker 1 45:25

There were six past presidents and alcohol was involved.

Speaker 2 45:28

Yeah, and the computer kept crashing and, for those who don't know, early on in this podcast, when Clint and John kind of got it off the ground, thanks to past president Travis Hammond and that board, I was only able to do it on a laptop and these cameras are high definition, takes a lot of memory up, and so it hadn't been maintained properly by me because I wasn't living in Austin at the time and so everything's got a lifetime on it and that computer was on its last leg and it just didn't make it that hard drive couldn't handle the content.

Speaker 3 45:59

There was going to be a lot of editing, but it was you, Jimmy Alessantos Mitch.

Speaker 1 46:01

Slaymaker. No, no, there was going to be a lot of editing, yeah, but it was you.

Speaker 2 46:05

Jimmy DeLaSantos, mitch Slaymaker. Eddie Wilkerson, Trey Morris, trey Morris, james Babb Babb was there. I think that's it, but it was a good time.

Speaker 1 46:16

It was a great conversation and we talked about the history of TMPA and what each past president brought to the table and what they remember. You know what what happened and it was, you know, like when eddie got on the board. Eddie was on the board for like 15 years before he he. He was secretary for a long time and, um, there was one point where the board members would take turns coming to Austin, over on Huntland, the old office and answer the phones because we didn't have any employees, we didn't have payroll, we didn't have any money to pay payroll. Wow, so they would take turns coming over and answering the phones and Kevin was handling all the legal and driving, know, and driving all over the state because he didn't want to fly, because back then he was smoking and he wanted to drive.

Speaker 2 47:10

That's why.

Speaker 1 47:11

Yeah, that's why, and I remember you know I was a young board member at large and you know I left Baytown, drove to El Paso and Kevin met me there and Eddie and Jimmy went to Amarillo. We used to go to the border or go down through the valley a lot, jimmy and Eddie and I, we'd just get in the truck and go.

Speaker 2 47:35

We're planning in the next couple of weeks we're going to come out with our mission video with several of y' all there. We're going to probably film it while we're all here in Austin. Hopefully we can get that pushed out to you guys. But I'm looking forward to it's gonna be a good time gonna be a good time.

Speaker 1 47:48

Yep, there's been some cool characters over the years big personalities, fun personalities like I was hired, like the president that uh did the repelling off the hotel in conroe and a jock strap and a cowboy.

Speaker 3 48:02

I was a young kid when I got hired at Plano PD and the first character I met was Billy Meeks.

Speaker 1 48:08

Oh.

Speaker 3 48:08

Billy Meeks. Yeah, there's been a lot of cool personalities, fun personalities and great leadership through the years. We've been fortunate to have.

Speaker 2 48:18

Yep, yep, I agree. Well, I hope you studied for your three-question test at the end of the podcast and you might be on the Clint side on one of them. We shall see. Okay, let me have it. What is your favorite cop line or line from a cop? I'm sorry, I always screw this up. What's your favorite line from a cop movie or your favorite cop movie? What's your favorite cop car and your favorite drink of choice?

Speaker 1 48:44

Well, the favorite cop car is easy it was the 86 Crown Vic. Yes, because we had to put sandbags in the trunk to keep it from swapping ends. It was so light in the back end.

Speaker 3 48:56

When I heard your model, I was thinking it was going to be mine. Caprice.

Speaker 2 49:01

No, I never liked the.

Speaker 1 49:02

Shamu. We used to call those Shamus the Caprice. No, I never liked the Shamu. We used to call those Shamus the Caprice. I never liked the. The Crown Vic by far was the greatest cop car ever. Workhorse.

Speaker 2 49:11

He's talking about the big square one, yeah, yeah, oh, yeah, yeah, with the chrome front grille.

Speaker 1 49:16

That'd run about 160. Yeah, yeah, and did from Orange to Biter several times.

Speaker 2 49:25

What's your favorite?

Speaker 1 49:26

line from a cop movie or your favorite cop movie. I, I think. I think my it was more of a tv show than a movie. It was hill street blues, yeah, and it was the sergeant he'd say let's be careful out there yeah and if, if I could tell anybody that's in this line of work, just be careful. Yeah, you know, look for your, look out for each other, because you all, that's all you got is each other, I agree.

Speaker 1 49:52

And we are one big family. Yep, we may not get along, we may not like each other, but I mean, I had district partners that I didn't particularly care for, but I was the first one there when they hollered for help. You know, because if you let one fall, we all fall. Yep, I agree, what is?

Speaker 2 50:15

your favorite drink of choice.

Speaker 1 50:16

Bourbon Yep, you know I'm a bourbon snob. You are a bourbon snob I am. That is one of my vices is you know? My wife opened, went up to the man cave, which you've been in, and she said when did you get that? And I'm like, I don't remember I've had it. That's what they always say to us. I don't remember. So she goes, but you have two in case one runs out, that's right.

Speaker 3 50:44

If you could only have one bottle from now on that you had to sip on. You could only have one.

Speaker 1 50:49

That's easy, old Fitzgerald I love the old Fitzgerald.

Speaker 2 50:55

We broke one out that night.

Speaker 1 50:56

Yeah, we did.

Speaker 2 50:57

I've never had that Pretty good.

Speaker 1 50:59

I've got two bottles at the house. Come on by, I'll pour you a drink. I like that. We'll sit on the porch, have some bourbon and smoke a good cigar.

Speaker 3 51:07

I still got a bottle of what you turned me on to at dinner one night, 1787 or 1897. 1792? Yes, yeah, I've got a bottle of that right now.

Speaker 1 51:19

That's good. Yeah, I just picked up a bottle of EH Taylor Small Batch the other day.

Speaker 3 51:24

If you want to get into bourbon and you don't like the real sweet stuff like I don't get recommendations from Lon because I hate the sweet bourbon and that's not what he drinks he's helped me find the good stuff.

Speaker 1 51:41

I tell you, trey Morris just came back from the bourbon trail and he brought me a bottle of Old Bart's. Day you can only get it in kentucky. Wow and uh, it's amazing. Yeah, it's like it's. It's like caramel. Yeah, I'm in. Yeah, I just just open it, put a straw in it, I'm good yeah, you know it just I, I ration it because I won't you. You know, unless I go to Kentucky, I won't get another one.

Speaker 3 52:05

Yep, unless it's Angel's Envy.

Speaker 1 52:07

Oh, no See, you know I could take or leave. Angel's Envy Me too. He can't do that. I'm going to leave it. Yeah, I had a little incident with that one. You know it's okay. Yeah, it's more than okay, lon. I think the best bourbon that I ever had was when I got a bottle of uh, happy van Winkle 12 year old lot B and I would take that over any other bottle you could get me. It was a 12 year old lot B.

Speaker 3 52:34

I'd like to try it for our novice bourbon drinkers out there. Um, tyler strongly endorses If you try, angels envy to wear a pull up. Yes, sleep in a pull-up. Yes, sleep in a pull-up if you try, angels Envy For those that don't know, san Antonio Conference 2021-22,.

Speaker 2 52:53

I don't drink a lot of whiskey. In fact, I envy no pun intended you guys that can and do a lot. The only really hard drink that I would drink is peanut butter whiskey, which is nothing compared to some of the stuff that's out there. So one night one of the board members handed me a shot of Angel's Envy. Before I could even listen to my wife yelling at me, you know no screaming across the bar, I went ahead and took the shot Again. You know it's different being an employee at an employee state association. On the employee side, we're not going to get just absolutely tore down. Uh, we encourage members to have a good time, but you know I'm not going to just get obliterated. And I wasn't, and it was time for me to go to bed, and so I woke up around three, four o'clock in the morning and was getting beaten, uh, but my wife letting me know that I needed to go use the restroom and uh, I apparently was using the restroom in the bed. Oh, nice.

Speaker 3 53:46

You didn't need to go. No, you no longer needed to go.

Speaker 1 53:50

So yeah, it was a rather eventful night Gives a whole new meaning to sleeping in a wet spot.

Speaker 2 53:54

Yeah, that's right. That's right, Gosh well, yeah, I just had to get my dirty laundry, and so we're going to roll with that. So we're going to roll with that. I may go get some annual Zimby after this and a bag of pull-ups. A bag of pull-ups. There you go. Well, man, I can't thank you enough for coming on.

Speaker 1 54:07

Oh, thanks for having me. It's been a great episode.

Speaker 2 54:10

I can't thank you enough for everything you do for TMPA, so I'd rather appreciate it.

Speaker 1 54:13

It's family. That's right. I mean, my whole goal is to show the new board members and the current board members that the past presidents aren't here. We're here for them, we're here as a sounding board, we're here for support, whatever they need, but I hope that when their turn comes, they're there for the other guys, yep.

Speaker 2 54:41

It's a good way to think, yeah.

Speaker 1 54:43

That's what I hope.

Speaker 3 54:44

Ron, I appreciate what you said. Yep, it's a good way to think. Yeah, yep, that's what I hope. Well, and I appreciate what you said earlier. It's family and sometimes we all jive really well together, and sometimes we disagree, sometimes we butt heads, but at the end of the day we're all family.

Speaker 2 54:54

At the end of the day and the one thing I'll always remember.

Speaker 3 54:56

It's all because we're passionate about cops, protecting cops, fighting for cops.

Speaker 1 55:01

I'm good with it. Like Glenn Rozier used to always say, I love each and every one of you and there's not a thing you can do about it.

Speaker 3 55:10

I miss that man. He's a good man.

Speaker 2 55:13

Well, this about wraps it up. You guys, take care, stay cool. We are in the summer, months of summer. This is hot as hell right now in Texas. Hopefully the area that you live in is going to be a little bit cooler as we move forward. Take care, stay safe, god bless you and, as always, may God bless Texas. Thank you.