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Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
2024: Ranked #1 Law Podcast
Host: Tyler Owen and Clint McNear discussing topics, issues, and stories within the law enforcement community. TMPA is the voice of Texas Law Enforcement, focused on protecting those who serve. Since 1950, we have been defending the rights and interests of Texas Peace Officers by providing the best legal assistance in the country, effective lobbying at state and local levels, affordable training, and exemplary member support. As the largest law enforcement association in Texas, TMPA is proud to represent 33,000 local, county and state law enforcement officers.
Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
#074- "Patriots Among Us"
Join us for an unforgettable recount of multiple episodes featuring heroic guests like Victor Avila, Ken Gardner, Joey Sepulveda, David Kurylowicz, and Greg Stevens! This special recap episode is a testament to the relentless dedication of law enforcement and the continued dangers they face daily to protect the life, property, and liberty of every citizen. Hear their powerful stories and be inspired by their unwavering commitment to keeping our communities safe. Don’t miss this tribute to the bravery and sacrifice of those who stand on the front lines.
Cozen O’Connor Public Strategies - The Beltway BriefingListen for of-the-moment insider insights, framed by the rapidly changing social and...
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email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
he locks eyes with me, he tilts his head and he goes oh man, and the next thing I know, he shoots me and uh, first shot hit me right underneath the chin and it came out welcome back.
Speaker 2:Viewers, watchers, listeners. I'm your host, tyler Owen. I hope you and your families had a wonderful Independence Day and celebrated with friends and families and those that worked. I hope it was a quiet one for you. Guys and gals, this episode is going to be a little bit different.
Speaker 2:We're going to reflect back on some absolute amazing guests and prior guests that we've had on that have included some TMPA staff and prior guests that we've had on that have included some tmpa staff and board of directors and we've got just absolute, uh, heroes that walk among us, and so we wanted to highlight these heroes within the tmpa family, and so this episode is going to highlight them. And, by the way, this will be upcoming to our 75th episode, which will be debuted next week, so stay tuned for that. But again, the successes of this podcast are thanks to you. So, on behalf of the Blue Grit team me and Clint and TMPA, we want to thank you so much for tuning in every single week and listening to these absolutely incredible stories and, man, what a ride it's been. We've been named Texas' number one law enforcement podcast here recently and it's an honor and we share that with you. So, without further ado, we're going to hear from again some prior heroes Victor Avila, vice President Ken Gardner, joey Sepulveda and David Kerlewicz about their heroic instances here on the Blue Grid. You guys take care, stay safe.
Speaker 2:We are going to look forward to seeing everyone at the joint TMPA Texas FOP conference. We hope to see you there. It's very much kid-friendly. If you haven't checked that out, visit tmpaorg and get signed up. God bless you and, as always, god bless you.
Speaker 4:And, as always, may God bless Texas. And so I'm like just let them go. They're going like 90 plus. I told Jaime to keep it between 70, 72 miles an hour and I said, just let them go. Who knows who the hell. That is right, and they're flying.
Speaker 4:But before you knew it, we come up on them. They had slowed down to about 20, 25 miles an hour, blocking the two lanes. So we're on the far right lane and we come up on them and immediately they start trying to force us to pull over and I tell hyman no, no, no, don't go, go, go, go. And he tries to evade them and they reposition themselves and the second time the suv next him, they lower the windows and pull out AK-47s and these guys are yelling at the top of the windows to pull over, pull over, stop, stop, pull over.
Speaker 4:And I tell Jaime no, and they're literally almost crashing this window, you know, mirror to mirror. And then the front vehicle is slamming on the brakes. So they're doing a rolling roadblock on us, which we would train to do at the academy, and they eventually do a force off to the right shoulder and we come to a complete stop and about eight of them come out and do a semi-circle in front of us, uh of the suburban, with long guns and they're all shouting and screaming and you know, we immediately put our hands up. Uh, one of them, the, the main guy of that, what they call a stock, or uh, their cell right is uh, has a handgun. He comes over to him, his door, and opens the door. I literally swung it open and he could tell that he was even surprised because they kind of yanked that I think it wasn't going to open.
Speaker 4:And it swung open and jaime grabbed in the industrial handle and slams it right back shut damn and when what I saw from my passenger seat is the guy just standing with a handgun like this. It swung up and then swung right back down and shut down and then we started hitting those lock buttons. Well, during we those buttons, then the the window buttons and the lock buttons are next to each other. My window lowered about two inches without us knowing, and this whole time we have our hands up. I'm I'm yelling at the guys. We're Americans. You're confusing us. Whoever you think we are you're, we're not who you think we are. Uh, we're us diplomats. We're from the U S embassy.
Speaker 4:This is a diplomatic vehicle. Look at the plates. Let me identify myself and my black passport. My passport was in my backpack with the guns had caught, been caught underneath the seats when we lowered both seats, and so I never had access to my weapons. And so gladly, because if I would have shown a weapon, I wouldn't be here for sure to tell you to thought people that I will. You, you showed up. I never showed anything. I wanted to show my passport. That's why I wanted to show them and identify myself.
Speaker 5:So when you're telling them all this in Spanish, is it registering with them, or do they just not care who you are?
Speaker 4:It's not registering. It did register because later on they testified about it. But they have evil in their eyes. I'd never seen a focus of evil. They wanted us dead and it it took a while because, um, the the guy by the door when we weren't complying, and now they're yanking on the doors and they're locked and he sets off a few rounds by the front tire area, by hyman's side, and I even told him did he fucking? You know it? It? It took a second to me to realize that shots were fired. Oh, this shit, this shit's real, shit's real. He shot, yeah. And and he says, yeah, he shot. And I said, oh shit, um, and I mean, he never said, he, never, he never said a word to them. I was just yelling and screaming over and over. We're Americans, we're Americans, us diplomats, us embassy employees, blah, blah, blah, blah. Over and over.
Speaker 4:Get out Open the door with you know F in this. Get the fuck out. Open the door. Open the door, get out, get out Get out.
Speaker 4:And so I mean, no, get out, get out. And so I mean, no, don't get out, don't get out, don't get out. Uh, let me. And then he came to the front because he realized I was the one communicating. So he came around the suburban to the front and during that time two of the shooters came to my window and before he knew it, boom, they put a ak-47 through that gap and a handgun.
Speaker 4:And, oh shit, and I just backed up kind of to the post and I remember there's, the whole back is full of boxes, so we couldn't jump to the back and I immediately posted myself like this and raised the window, and it raised it and caught the barrels of both guns and I see them wiggling. Especially the guy with the ak is wiggling and the guy with the handgun is wiggling because it's caught in between the window and these are very thick armored windows right, and so they're wiggling it and without notice they open fire into the cabin. And so I'm like this, and the first thing to go is my hearing, and I have hearing loss in my left ear because of it, because they're literally shooting it right here and I see agent sapata get struck multiple times on his side with the handgun and then he gets shot with the ak in his leg. Um, I get shot, once in the chest and twice one of my upper leg and one of my lower leg. I didn't know, I had no idea that I've been shot. Uh, he yells out I'm hit, I'm hit, I'm shot. And I said go, go, go, go, go, go. They pull out the barrels. I raised the window, just the last little gap, and they were just spraying it, just shooting the whole right side, and I actually put the, the suburban back gear. The gear just slam it down and push hyman's knee into the gas pedal to crash that vehicle, to get out of the x. But hyman becomes, uh, unresponsive and the suburban rolls into the median. So from the far right shoulder crosses the highway and then I try to get it back on to highway 57, but you know the tires are flat, they're shooting this whole time at it and you know we kind of stopped there and I'm attending to One SUV. I see it take off Now I have very limited vision now because of the armored glass it's very hard to see from the inside.
Speaker 4:Outside you see like these white snow globes and the inside it just shatters and you can't see. But on the front windshield I see one taking off and then I see the second one take off and it a u-turn comes right back parks, right in front of the suburban. Two of the shooters come out and they look at me and I look at them and there's like a pause and they just go. They just open up on the and you'll see the pictures of the, of the two uh shots where they're trying to penetrate the glass, and I just sat there and I'm thinking, okay, this is it, I'm done, please work glass yeah, yeah and uh, I see them jump in the suv and they leave and, uh, I make the for the first phone call.
Speaker 4:Well, I try to get my next call radio. It doesn't work. I pick up my blackberry, I call the embassy and people could hear the call online and I switch office.
Speaker 6:This is a victory of from ICE. We got shot, we got shot. We are on the highway of Querétaro, Mexico. We've been shot and attacked on the highway. I am an ICE special agent. What is your name? You said, sir Victor. Alida Please call Jerry Miles. I don't have another phone, but where did you look?
Speaker 2:at. Please call Jerry Miles. We've been shot on the highway Highway.
Speaker 6:What is the highway Highway? What is the highway, sir?
Speaker 2:To where? Mexico, Querétaro.
Speaker 6:They know, where I'm at.
Speaker 7:Okay, it is back to me and, uh, I hear the guys on the radio on the other side and you can actually hear it on the 9-1-1, or on the radio traffic, not the 9-1-1 call, but the radio traffic. And I heard Billy Yates say hey, ken, stop that red car. Well, they had rolled up on a drug transaction and they were leaned in the car making the deal. They see him, the car takes off, he wants me to stop the car. Well, I was already seeing this guy walking, so I ignored the red car and Mike Saxon was behind me on his bike. So we're all on bikes. When the meantime I didn't know this at the time, but the other I think it was a Phillip Johnson and Josh Green were contacting some guys that were at the car making the deal, and I think a Billy kind of took off after the car making the deal and I think Billy kind of took off after the car just to kind of keep an eye on it. Well, we didn't go after the car. I see this guy walking and he turns around and he sees me. Well, he's holding a beer can in his hand. So he throws his beer can down and I holler at him. I said you know, identify myself, identify myself. Hey, tyler, please stop. Of course I didn't know who he was at the time. And then, uh, we go into a courtyard, so you can imagine, there's two long buildings this way and some shorter buildings this way, so it's a long, long courtyard area building surrounding it. We walk into this little courtyard area and he's not stopping Because you know, I was able to get off my bike.
Speaker 7:You go through bike school, learn how to dismount while you're still rolling. You know, looks cool anyway. So I came off that thing and I told him again. I said Tyler, please stop. Well, we've all been cops for a long time, you know when something's not right. So I stop, he keeps walking, but his hands go into the front of his, you know, to his waist on the front side. So I stop, I quit approaching him at that point and I start backing up, take a few steps back and I remember having my gun on my hand. Now, what's crazy is, I actually did pull my gun out, didn't even realize it once it was all over. And again, I mean, I kind of follow up on that in a minute. So, anyway, he's walking. I said let me see your hands, as we always do, because if we can see their hands, that's what's going to kill us. Let me see your hands. And I start backing up.
Speaker 7:Well, I didn't know if Mike Saxon was with me or not. I didn't know if he took off after the car. I didn't see him, this guy. He didn't say a word. He didn't say anything. He didn't, he did nothing. All he did was turn to his left and I can see it like his day. I mean, this year will be 20 years, doesn't seem like it. He turned, didn't say a word. He fires a shot at me. The first shot missed me. My bike's laying there, it's on the ground. The first shot missed me. The first shot missed me. Uh, my bike's laying there, it's on the ground. The first shot missed me. Now I'm pretty close to the corner of this building. I'm thinking if I can get to the corner of that building, at least I'll have some cover, because I'm right out in the open. How?
Speaker 5:far away was he when he fired that shot.
Speaker 7:Oh, I don't know three or four yards.
Speaker 5:Oh, okay, oh we were close.
Speaker 7:Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I was backing up. So you can imagine five yards on a football field. I mean it was less than that, or right at it. I mean we were close. I'm still not sure how he missed me, to be honest with you. I mean we were close. So he missed me that first shot. And I'm thinking, if I can get to the corner of this building, I think I can get some cover and I can return some fire or something, because I had nothing. We're talking about seconds. So as soon as I turned to get to the corner, I felt something hit me like a sledgehammer I mean it was hard and I fell to the ground right there by the corner of the building. Well, I look up to see where he is and then I hear more gunfire behind me. Well, mike Saxon actually came around and took the attention off of me and the bad guy started shooting at him. So he, had he not been with me, who, who knows what would have happened?
Speaker 3:while I'm, uh, while I'm going to the call, um dispatch gets on the radio and gets bumped up from a suspicious vehicle. Suspicious person call to possible burglars in action and a suspect vehicle is described to be a Ford, a white-colored Ford Dually. And I was like white-colored Ford Dually. We had prior information that this white Dually had been burglarizing vehicles before, of course, the occupants. So I stepped it up, I turned, turned on my lights, broke through a light and I'm hauling us. Am I allowed to?
Speaker 3:uh, yeah you can say you can say hauling, okay, so, uh. So I'm getting there, code three um, my partner, who gets stuck at the light because of traffic, um, stays behind about I say at least about it probably about 30, 40 seconds behind me. So I get there. I told the dispatcher, hey, I'm entering this location, I'm entering this, this, uh, entryway. I'm coming up to the back rear parking lot and I see the suspect vehicle. So it's kind of weird and a lot goes along with the story. So I parked my vehicle and for some reason, the vehicle where I parked your dash cam is supposed to be pointing straight forward. Well, for some reason, somehow, I do not remember, but the camera is canted to where it's, catching everything of the suspect vehicle. So I approach the vehicle on the driver's side.
Speaker 5:And your mindset at this point is probably car burglars. I'm about to interact with car burglars, absolutely.
Speaker 3:So when I approach the vehicle, I see the driver and I see a passenger in the rear view, I mean in the rear seat, right behind the driver. So I get there and of course now a little history about me is I'm a firearms instructor, I'm the department's tactical instructor, so I'm trying to do this as best and as tactical as I possibly can. So I get there, I tell the guys all right, guys, let me see your hands. They both comply, they both stick their hands out of the window. So I'm like, okay, I see where their hands are at, I know what's going on. While I approach the driver, he starts rolling up the window and kind of trying to get the vehicle started, get the truck moving, and I start, of course, giving some verbal commands. I start, of course, giving some verbal commands. Now, mind you, when I'm approaching, I notice a whole bunch of people out in the parking lot. I remember very clearly that I see a husband, I see a wife and I see them with a hamper full of clothes doing laundry and if I've not, if I'm not mistaken, the mom was pushing a stroller. So I'm like, okay, I've got, you've got civilians out here.
Speaker 3:So once he, once the driver, starts making evasive movements and and I take out my taser. Now I will tell you the old Joey, back in the day, the taser wouldn't come out, it would have been my gun. But you know how, the things that we have to go through in law enforcement nowadays is okay if I take out my weapon. Now, here comes the cameras, yeah, the progression, the progression here goes, you know. Oh, look at the cop being aggressive with you know, showing off his gun. So, anyways, I approach the driver with my taser and he starts making movements to try to get away and I tell the driver don't do it, don't do it. So I lose focus on the subject. In the back seat, I get tunnel vision and focus on the driver. Are you in the back seat? I get tunnel vision and focus on the driver.
Speaker 5:Are you at?
Speaker 3:the rear of the vehicle or I'm at the driver? Yeah, well, yes, so when I approach, I'm approaching in an angle from the, from the rear, and going up to the driver.
Speaker 3:But you're at the driver window right now but I'm at the driver window, so it's a a dually. So I get up on the I guess on the step, the sidestep, and I start kind of getting into a physical altercation with the driver. He's backing up because I'm showing him the taser. Of course he's got a little red dot on him, he knows what's about to happen. I lose focus on the taser. Of course he's got a little red dot on him, he knows what's about to happen. I lose focus on the rear passenger, so all I see is his hands come up. As I see his hands come up, I take a real quick glance over and it's a barrel and all I hear is a pop. And the first shot hit me right underneath the chin and it came out my neck. So at that point in time the first thing that came out of my or that came to my head was like this SOB just shot me.
Speaker 3:So I'm backing up, I throw my taser I don't even holster it, I throw it on the ground. I'm reaching for my gun and I can't tell you how many pops I heard, but I heard pops.
Speaker 5:He's still in the back left seat.
Speaker 3:Yes, firing out the window. He's firing out the window. So from later on finding out, I take a shot and it hits my trauma vest, so it spins me in an angle because he double taps and the second one goes through my shoulder, comes out my back your earphone, um, but they were stupidly expensive and they didn't really work that well.
Speaker 1:They were just coming out, so I had my radio clipped to my shirt, um, or the microphone, I guess, clipped my shirt there. So everything that my partner said over the radio, you can hear it coming out of the radio and I, I remember thinking to myself when my partner got on the radio and he said that I remember going, you know, feeling that that relief, like, oh, you know, tony knows I'm not good with this guy and Tony knows something's up. You know that we have that, that connection. You know Tony knows I'm not good with this guy and Tony knows something's up. You know that we have that connection, you know your partner, just that connection you have with your partner. And I remember having that relief, almost that Tony's in tune. You know he knows.
Speaker 1:And right when he said that, right when he said you know, we need a sergeant and another unit, peter the bad guy was standing in front of me and, like I said, we were close. He locks eyes with me and he tilts his head and he goes oh man. And the next thing, I know everything goes into slow motion, everything.
Speaker 5:Like Matrix just.
Speaker 1:The door starts to open and I see a handgun right behind the door and the bad guy's going for it. And I see it and I yell gun, gun, gun, gun, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. And I'm grabbing my vest and I'm pulling my gun out and he shoots me. And that started this gunfight for just under three minutes.
Speaker 5:Do you know where the first round?
Speaker 1:I got struck four times. So I got hit right in the chest and the bullet came in right where my radio microphone was, was clipped to my shirt and it had blew out the back of the microphone but screwed up the wires to where it made my microphone broadcast everything. Oh really, it made it a hot mic. Yeah, made my microphone broadcast everything.
Speaker 5:Oh really, it made it a hot mic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so my microphone recorded the entire shooting. Wow, so you can hear. You can hear the entire thing. You can hear me getting shot. I took a round to my chest. I took two rounds to my lower abdomen, your vest, right where your vest sits at the bottom. The bullet hit the bottom of my vest and it caught the bullet just enough to where it curled when it went in. It curled it and, instead of going straight through it, shot up into my abdomen. So it went. It changed the trajectory from going straight to going up or in and up. And then the third round went below my vest and just, you know that little freaking half-inch gap between your vest and your belt.
Speaker 5:Yeah, well, some of us, that gap's a little bigger. Yeah, I have a big gap now.
Speaker 1:But that round punched right through there, wow, and that one went all the way through, hit my hip bone and blew out my back. So I later found out that I had a hole. If you hold your hand up, I had a hole about the size of my hand coming out my back on my left side.
Speaker 8:And it's about a 40-foot driveway and I've got 10-foot cones on top of that approach there, kind of blocking the driveway with about a 10-foot opening. I'm standing on the if you're standing in the parking lot looking at the street, I'm standing on the left side of the driveway and, like I said, been there most of the day and this little black car comes up and pulls partially into the driveway and stays partially From your left to right, yeah, coming from my left to my right, going down the street and partially in the driveway, partially still in the street, and pulls all the way to the other side of the driveway and comes to a stop kind of abruptly and I thought that's weird and can't see inside the car. No, I can't, I can't see anything and it's not dark, it's just I just can't see in the car and it's a little two-door car. So they pull up. So I'm watching this car and here's a little an interesting tidbit that the security guard that was with me and here's a little an interesting tidbit, the security guard that was with me he's seeing the exact same thing right, and he was behind me and to my left. He never came into my field of view and he told me this and he actually testified to this in a subsequent trial. But anyway, he told me he saw the same thing that I was seeing and he just assumed it was somebody going to ask directions or ask a question or something like that.
Speaker 8:I had a different perspective on it, because if they wanted to ask this guy a question, they needed to stop where I was not 30 feet away, because the chances of me ambling over there 30 feet they're going to have to back up. They're going to have to do something. I'm not really inclined to leave where I was at in, nor just to see if they had a question or something. But the security guard says he's walking toward the car. So here's a difference in perspective. Already, right, the next thing that happens is both doors of the car open simultaneously, and I can see the passenger side clearly. I can see the back clearly. I can't see the driver's side as much because it's blocked a little bit by the car, but I can see both doors open at the same time and the next thing I see is the passenger stepping out in the barrel of a rifle coming up in my direction. So the security guard is seeing exactly the same thing. Okay, Now, once again, here we are on perspective, right? He said and he told me this personally and testified to it. He said when he saw that his first thought was this is the stupidest prank anybody could ever pull, because that garland policeman is going to kill that guy. Wow, well, interestingly enough, now we're kind of on the same page, right? Yep, we took two different roads and finally got the same intersection.
Speaker 8:But the point being here is preparation isn't just learning how to shoot a gun, learning how to, you know, exchange in a physical altercation or any of that kind of stuff. A lot of it has to do with this right here. It's mindset. He wasn't prepared for something that dramatic or difficult to happen. His brain immediately went to this can't really be happening. This has got to be a prank. My brain wasn't there. As soon as I saw the barrel of the rifle coming up, I immediately was ready to engage. And when I was asked in a trial subsequent to this, one of the attorneys said well, when you saw the barrel of the rifle coming up in your direction, what happened next? Well, my answer to that and it's on the record and I said my training kicked in, because that's exactly what happened. I wasn't making a plan, I wasn't going. Oh wait a minute. What do I need to do now? Right, I knew that it was go time. I had to do something, right?
Speaker 5:You don't remember drawing your gun.
Speaker 8:Nope, don't remember drawing my gun. The first actual memory I have is getting a sight picture and squeezing off around On the passenger first. Yes, and people have asked me, well, who shot first? And I have no idea who shot first, whether it was me or him, or we shot simultaneously, or what happened. I do remember a sight picture and, interestingly enough, I do remember every round I fired. I got a sight picture and I remember also that my rate of fire was not this spastic as fast as I could pull the trigger. It was rather rhythmical and it took me a few days to remember that it didn't. It's kind of interesting.
Speaker 8:You know Colonel Grossman, everybody probably most everybody who's listening here probably knows who Colonel Grossman is. But his book on combat talks about things that happen when you're engaged in combat and what your body does and doesn't do and those kinds of things. And one of the things that he talks about is memory delays or memory lapses and those kind of things. It's all normal, there's nothing to get worried about. But it took me a few days that I actually remembered that particular thing and I had this very rhythmical rather rate of fire and I got a sight picture. But you know, when we train at the range, it's all about hitting what you're shooting at, and that was as fast as Greg Stevens could shoot at something and hit what he was shooting at. If I did it any faster, I was just wasting bullets, probably Spraying and praying yeah so passenger exit, comes up with the rifle.
Speaker 5:You engage him.
Speaker 1:I did.
Speaker 5:What happens during that engagement or what's the next event that happens once you all exchange gunfire?
Speaker 8:Well, I fired several rounds on him. He falls to the ground, he drops his rifle. I knew I had two assailants so I felt he was at least temporarily out of the fight, since he dropped his rifle and went down. I directed my attention to the driver who had made his way out of the car and he was at the back of the car. He had his rifle shouldered and I never saw the security guard. But I'm assuming that's who he was shooting at. Was the security guard who's headed for the Mexican border at this point? Because he has no cover? No, nothing, he's just out of luck, right? And so I engaged the driver, fired several rounds on him. He falls to the ground, similarly to the passenger, drops his rifle.
Speaker 8:I still had concerns about the passenger so I readdressed my attention to him. He's laying on the ground and he's moving around. He hasn't retrieved his rifle rifle, but he's got his hands up here around his throat and around this area and he's moving his hands around. And and we had talked about in briefing, paying attention in a briefing we talked about ieds and the possibility and probability that if anybody mounted any kind of attack, they would have small weapons, handguns and rifles and very likely IEDs of some sort, whether body-borne or vehicle-borne. So I'm thinking, while he's doing this, is he trying to pull a pin? Is he trying to push a button? I don't know what he's doing, so he is still very much a threat in my mind.
Speaker 8:So I reengaged him and fired several more rounds. He quit wiggling around quite so much and then I once again directed my attention toward the driver. He hadn't done a whole lot. He had kind of pushed himself up and slumped back down. He hadn't retrieved his rifle. But once again, the IED thing is, I had to make sure that threat was completely eliminated. I fired a couple more rounds and I was carrying a Glock 21 .45 caliber handgun at the time and I slide locked back. I'd fired 14 rounds and I immediately did a tactical reload. It wasn't something I thought about and man no-transcript.
