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Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
2024: Ranked #1 Law Podcast
Host: Tyler Owen and Clint McNear discussing topics, issues, and stories within the law enforcement community. TMPA is the voice of Texas Law Enforcement, focused on protecting those who serve. Since 1950, we have been defending the rights and interests of Texas Peace Officers by providing the best legal assistance in the country, effective lobbying at state and local levels, affordable training, and exemplary member support. As the largest law enforcement association in Texas, TMPA is proud to represent 33,000 local, county and state law enforcement officers.
Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
#082- "The Silent Killer" with Danny Brewster and Dr. Savannah Lusk
In this episode, we explore the critical topic of infant sleep-related deaths, which are the leading cause of fatalities in children under 18. Our guests, Danny Brewster from the Fort Bend Medical Examiner's Office and Dr. Savannah Lusk, share insights into their pioneering initiative aimed at providing essential training for rural law enforcement officers on handling these heartbreaking cases.
We delve into the crucial role of law enforcement in thoroughly documenting these tragic scenes and gathering vital data. The episode also sheds light on Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) research and the significant risk posed by unsafe sleep environments. Gain valuable insights into efforts focused on understanding and preventing these devastating events. This is an episode you definitely don't want to miss!
If you would like more information into this course- email-
william.brewster@fortbendcountytx.gov
Listen for of-the-moment insider insights, framed by the rapidly changing social and...
Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
The number one cause of death in children under the age of 18 is actually infant sleep-related death. So your child is more likely to die in that first year of life from unsafe sleep than they are from anything else until they turn 18. It's a really important and devastating issue and from the research side we're trying to still figure out what's going on.
Speaker 2:Welcome back. Viewers, watchers, listeners. I'm your host, Tyler Owen.
Speaker 3:And I'm Jay McClellan.
Speaker 2:And you're filling in for the big dog, our usual co-host Clint.
Speaker 3:McNair the man, the myth, the legend.
Speaker 2:He was recently elected to Texas FOP president. He is in, I believe, south Carolina attending the national FOP board meeting. I haven't got a report back attending the National FOP Board Meeting. I haven't got a report back. I asked him to do it in an essay format so once he gets that done I can relay to all of our members just what the hell is going on at the National FOP Board Meeting. They are doing their typical stuff. It's kind of cool though All 50 states are up there. And it's kind of cool though I mean 50, all 50 states are up there. You know, and I guess HPOU Joe Gamaldi is vice president there's just a lot of stuff going on.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, it's pretty neat Exciting times at FOP.
Speaker 2:How was your drive in Not? Bad Not bad, except the Doubletree mishap.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so a little bit of a double charge over the Doub double tree, but we'll get that squared away no big deal.
Speaker 2:That hotel's kind of gone to crap the last couple of years, I guess. But they do have a quite lovely restaurant slash bar at the bottom that we have spent a lot of hours in. Yeah, I didn't attend it this year, though or this time, for those that don't know, jay McClellan is our new training coordinator, probably five or six months Retired, missouri City police sergeant, yes, police sergeant, yeah, who we got on today?
Speaker 3:man, yeah, so we got a danny brewster on. He's from the uh four bin medical examiner's office chief over there, and he's also brought on savannah lusk savannah savannah lusk yep um, so they're gonna they're here to to talk about some training and um that they've created for, uh, basically, royal law enforcement.
Speaker 3:I mean it could be used in big cities, but really it's designed for for rural deputies and officers who don't typically interact with medical examiners offices. He contacted me regarding this training. Looked at it, I was like man, we really need to get that, get the word out on that train. That's some really good training. So, yeah, danny and Savannah.
Speaker 2:Man. Kudos to y'all, because it's cool that you identified the need for a problem. Look, we're cops and so we're easy fixers and so we love to sit there and Monday morning quarterback and say, by God, we need to fix this and fix this. But 99% of people who are barking from the back are not the ones that take initiative to solve the problem. And so you didn't just bark in the back, you were like, hey, yeah, there's a problem and here's the solution, and so you, together, are going to start getting this training out there to train cops on such an important topic. I'm a dad I don't know about you if you've got kids, but I know Jay does and so this is an important being on patrol with infant deaths, and so kudos to both of you for taking the initiative to get this going.
Speaker 4:Well, I appreciate it. Savannah has actually came up with this. She's the brainchild. There you go, so it's her credit. I got lucky that she found me and she let this old knuckle-dragger join her on this journey.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was surprised when he was like hey, I developed some training, what? I got the flyer and there was a doctor behind it. I was like okay, that makes sense, that's legit, that's legit.
Speaker 2:Well, we typically like to start off each podcast by talking about who you guys are individually and then we'll kind of crescendo up to talk about where you grew up. How did you get law enforcement? Now you're with the ME's office as an investigator. I think that's pretty cool. Where I grew up or worked, we didn't have that option as an ME's office, but certainly didn't know any medical examiner investigators. So you want to kick off.
Speaker 4:Sure, sure. So I grew up in Fort Bend County, rosenberg, and my neighbor was a lieutenant, you know as a kid, and so from the time I can remember, I was always going to be a cop. Wouldn't happen to be Slater, would it? No, okay, he wasn't. Rosenberg no, yeah, he's no longer with us, but he was a lieutenant constable.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:And none of that meant anything to me. Cops were cops, right. He had a gun and a pretty shiny badge and he did. You know, he put bad guys in jail. So I've always wanted to be a cop. Graduated high school, went to Sam Houston because I wasn't old enough to be a cop yet, but my 19th birthday I was working in the jail. So a couple more days I turned 39. That puts me at 20 years already.
Speaker 2:What jail did you start off in Walker County, walker County. Yes, sir, so I was a full-time student and working night shift in the jail Talk about how important it was because we've said this on the show multiple times the Explore program, working in the jail, setting and understanding and get a full perspective of how crucial communication is, especially on the streets. Talk about the benefits of you that you saw from your perspective of being in the jail and then transitioning out to the streets and kind of what that world looked like to you.
Speaker 4:Oh yeah, 100%. I've told guys this for years. The jail is the best place to start. It's a controlled environment. You don't have to worry about your gun and all the things that you have to protect when you're on the streets. You just have to learn how to live that life and deal with those people and and speak the way they speak. Um, and I tell people all the time the convicts at Walker County jail raised me. I went in at 19 years old and they schooled me on. You know how the streets work? Uh, cause, like from you know, roseburg is not, it's not the mean streets. No, you know, I grew up a good, sheltered life, the Dirty Bird.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, the Dirty Bird, the Dirty Bird.
Speaker 4:I mean we call it the Dirty Bird, but it's a good town, you know. So I got exposed to things in the jail, in a controlled environment, and those guys schooled me and they taught me how to communicate. And one of the biggest things that I tell the young guys when I talk to them is respect. If you talk to any convict, they'll tell you respect is key, and I have talked more people into my car than if I have had to fight them into my car.
Speaker 2:That shit's earned.
Speaker 4:Respect is earned 100%.
Speaker 2:I don't give a damn what uniform you got on, it is earned yeah 100%.
Speaker 4:So the jail is absolutely an amazing training ground for young guys coming out, especially if you don't know how to talk to people.
Speaker 2:What year did you go in?
Speaker 4:or start at the jail 04.
Speaker 2:So I was 03. Did they do? What I think is funny is that all jails are typically the same. Right, you've got the clear trash bag with all the commissary shit and then, for the most part, all the jumpsuits. At Dallas County they would take their uniforms, and why? Convicts wanted to look sharp in jail. I have no idea. I would want to be the ugliest, nastiest, smelliest person inside jail not to be messed with. But these guys I couldn't iron this good. I mean, their jumpsuits were starched. You could take a jumpsuit and stand it up on its own.
Speaker 3:They make their own starch out of milk and stuff.
Speaker 4:They had no starch and no iron, but they looked better than us, yeah, and smelled better too. What are y'all trying to get?
Speaker 2:Anyway, that's cool. You went and started the jail and then where did your career path go from there?
Speaker 4:Well, once I got old enough to go to the academy, I came straight back to Fort Bend County. I got. I came straight back to Fort Bend County, got a job at the sheriff's office in the jail night shift, put myself through Wharton County Junior College during the day.
Speaker 2:You did not sleep on duty though. Not one time did you ever sleep on duty? No, zero percent chance.
Speaker 4:No, I did not have an amazing sergeant that let me sleep in the pod in the jail. Not at all.
Speaker 2:With a fire coat jacket Exactly.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and so once I graduated the academy, at that point I had almost done two years in the jail combined. So I hit the streets and never looked back. What agency was that? The sheriff's office? Yes, sir, I did 10 years at Fort Bend County Sheriff's Office patrol, swat, criminal investigations which is criminal investigations is what kind of sparked my love for protecting children. I moved into, I did burglary and theft for a couple of years and then I moved into sex crimes and I was working touch cases against kids, something I never wanted to do. I never wanted to do that, that's just. You know, I'm a dad of two. That was a sensitive subject for me Girls or boys? Two boys, fortunately, well, and I'm going to get two.
Speaker 2:That was a sensitive subject for me Girls or boys, two boys, fortunately. Well, and I'm going to get into that in a minute, I think no offense to moms or ladies out there, but I think men who have daughters, I, in my own personal opinion, think it's more difficult for them to separate themselves as an investigator from that perspective, working those type of cases Sure, sure, because historically or statistically, female victims are at a higher percentage than males. And then when you're especially doing with kids, man, it's such a I don't want to say the word touchy topic, but it's, it's a, it's a sensitive situation for sure, and it's just a dynamic. So kudos to you for doing that, Cause there's, that's something I could not do.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and you know I thought that and then I didn't really have a choice and I ended up working those cases Best thing that ever happened to me. It's awesome, yeah. And so I transitioned from touch cases into internet crimes, which Jay got to do with us as well.
Speaker 2:He, which Jay got to do with us as well, when he was at Missouri City, you met him as a colleague. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean we both worked ICAC together to the Houston Metro ICAC. So that's how I actually knew Danny is from ICAC when he worked at the DA's office.
Speaker 2:Well, shout out to Catfish Cops. He is a ICAC guy out of Dallas, Super funny, and he talks about specifically ICAC cases and cases that he's worked there at the Garland Police Department. So it's an intriguing or it's an interesting aspect of our jobs and hats off to you guys that worked it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, it's a tough field to be in, but, man, it's a blast and you do good things. Yeah, and I'm assuming that's how you met no, so that was at the sheriff's office, and then I left there and went to the DA's office. I did some work with attorneys, which, if you've never dealt with attorneys, boy, that's fun. Oh yeah, they're like herding cats, you know, but I did four years there. That was great. I got to see the other side of the coin. I got the amazing opportunity to be the chief over the medical examiner's office, which was a brand-new office, so we built it from we started with six full-time and we're at 26, I think now.
Speaker 3:What year was that?
Speaker 4:19. December of 19, we opened, wow, so we've blown up. But Savannah called me I don't know six months ago and she pitched this idea about this training and immediately it played on my prior life of protecting children. Yeah, because up until this point I hadn't really had much with that as far as the ME's office and I realized that this was a good opportunity for us to do things that are again protecting children, so that's right up my alley.
Speaker 2:Well, and where did you switching to you? Where did you grow up and how did you get into the career field that?
Speaker 1:you're in. Well, I am not from Texas like y'all.
Speaker 2:It's okay. You got here as quick as you could, I know. Where are you from?
Speaker 1:though I'm originally from West Virginia.
Speaker 4:Okay, she's not a Yankee. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:I heard that song coming in. Technically we seceded to the north. Yeah, that was a doctor response.
Speaker 1:And I went to school in Virginia Norfolk area so big military family. And then I went to college and got a bachelor's in biology and chemistry with a concentration in biomedical health. And then I went to graduate school at Dartmouth College and got a PhD in experimental and molecular medicine. So I actually am theoretically a neuroscientist or a neurophysiologist, so I study how the brain controls what your body does without thinking about it.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:So that's my speciality and I've applied that to cases of sudden death in infancy.
Speaker 2:SIDS, otherwise known as SIDS. How did you end up? Excuse me, how did you end up here in Texas after college, being from absolutely beautiful country up in West Virginia?
Speaker 1:After I finished my doctorate, I was actually unemployed for about a year. I was selling car parts and bartending, trying to just pay the bills, and I had applied to several different positions and my current PI, dr Russell Ray, offered me a job. So, I said okay, I'm moving to Texas.
Speaker 2:For those that don't know, we were able to, you and I both actually to the Washington DC. Why are you looking at me crazy?
Speaker 3:I'm trying to figure out what we did together.
Speaker 2:Yeah well, there's a lot we've done together, but we went to DC Memorial Week National.
Speaker 3:Police Week.
Speaker 2:And during those extracurricular activities hanging out with a bunch of pipe and drum bands at night, there were some keys were lost and it resulted in me having to drive the memorial truck back from DC to Austin, and I was a little upset when I got ordered to do so. But I will tell you, I was able to travel through West Virginia for the first time ever. Listen, I'm going to say it right here, right now I love Texas and I'll never leave Texas. But if I was to choose another state, it would be oh my God, it's beautiful up there it is beautiful.
Speaker 1:I will say that there's not a lot of dentistry, though, up there Some people I saw at a gas station seemed like they loved Mountain Dew. I'm not sure that's necessarily a dentistry issue.
Speaker 2:You've got an absolutely beautiful smile and that you did not inherit what I saw at the gas station, because it looked like the Hills have Eyes had threw up inside this gas station. I was quite scared, and I was unarmed too, by the way, because I had to fly up there In a police truck, in a blue line painted police truck with police memorabilia all over it, with unarmed In West Virginia. But I was welcomed scarily, you know, with the Hills have Eyes people up there. They embraced me and I ate shit that I didn't know I would eat in West Virginia at a gas station, and so all is well, I survived. So you started at the Fort Bend County Medical Examiner's.
Speaker 1:Office working. I work at Baylor College of Medicine.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry. So you're just connected with that aspect. Another reason why I need to talk about how this all works is I didn't work with Emmy's office and I didn't know kind of how that worked and you being an investigator, but you saw a need for the infant death situation with SIDS. As a patrolman, as a cop, you show up to those kind of scenes and it's just kind of like you kind of go through the process. Some ADCs are different, especially rural areas. You saw the importance of it, y'all saw the importance of it and so we're going to talk about this much needed training. So I don't know who wants to kick off first to talk about how, the why of what you identified, seeing it, and we'll talk about that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely so. One of the most important takeaways from this that I think is a really important message is that the number one cause of death in children under the age of 18 is actually infant sleep-related death. So your child is more likely to die in that first year of life from unsafe sleep than they are from anything else until they turn 18. So it's a really important and devastating issue, and from the research side, we're trying to still figure out what's going on. Why are these children dying? And there are unsafe sleep factors in the environment. So having pillows or blankets, things like that, it's not safe.
Speaker 1:But that doesn't mean the baby was suffocated because there was a light blanket. You know, there are other things in the brain that we know that are slightly abnormal, right? So your ability to respond to low oxygen levels, all of that's regulated by your brain, and so if there are small little abnormalities, that can contribute to it. But part of the problem on the research side is we don't always get all the information about what's actually in the environment, and so when it comes to investigating these deaths, we need really detailed documentation of where everything is what it is, what brand is it, how heavy was it, a detailed history of where the mom grew up, what she was exposed to during pregnancy, because the baby was going to be exposed to that. So there are so many different factors. It's really frustrating I get from. So my husband's a cop and so, from his perspective, I give him a 20 page sheet of questions to ask parents and, like you said, you just show up and you're just I don't want to be here. This is uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:It's uncomfortable for everybody and you got this giant pamphlet you're trying to flip through. But I need those, I need that information. So, basically, what we're trying to do is teach cops why it's important for like every single question. Why do we need to know that? So then y'all can then tell the parents like we, if they don't want to answer something you can be like hey, this is why we need to know it, it's important for this, this and that, and we're not really sure yet.
Speaker 2:So we need this data for x, y and z when you talk about brands, are you talking about, like, a specific style and brand of, like pillow, right? I mean, is it down to uh that will assist you in the research that you're doing to to better, basically, save lives? I mean, exactly what? What age group are the infants, you know, obviously, from one week old all the way up? To what age, uh, are you seeing the most impact with this sid's death?
Speaker 2:so it's up to a year old, um, but the peak is between about two and four months of age okay, okay, uh, you know we've all been cops, street cops and to see, I guess I've had many talks with myself driving home you see children, environments that they can't control, right, I mean, their parents are who they are and even sometimes their parents these children's parents were just kind of born into a crappy situation, and so you see kids that are sleeping in conditions with you know their mom while they're breastfeeding, while she's drinking a beer.
Speaker 2:We see this kind of stuff all the time and you're like, how is that kid able to survive that? And then you've got literally, uh, people that live in mansions, that have beautiful homes and they've taken every single precaution that they can and one doesn't make it there. I've had that mental question to myself many times as driving home, as probably most of our listeners and watchers do. So what is this data showing right now? That you can at least connect the dots to some degree, that what you're seeing on your side of what has what's the biggest contributor?
Speaker 1:I'd say by far unsafe sleep is going to be one of the biggest modifiable risk factors, right, so if we're talking about things that you as a parent can change, you can put your baby in a safe sleep environment.
Speaker 1:But, like you said, it's important to recognize that thousands and thousands and thousands of babies sleep in unsafe sleep environments and don't die every night.
Speaker 1:Right, so there is that biological piece to it, but part of the definition of SIDS specifically is that it's an otherwise healthy baby. There's really no test we have to tell you whether or not your infant is more at risk or not. We're working on it, we're trying to develop those things and post-mortem, on the autopsy side, there are different abnormalities, like slight differences that we see, but there's still a lot of work to be done and it is so hard and tricky to do that work. Just, you know, thinking about from your side, right, it's uncomfortable doing those investigations, things like that. We have to call these parents and ask them for tissue samples and blood samples from the baby they just lost and have them consent in order to do research, you know, and so that's really tricky and uncomfortable for everybody, but it's really the only way that we can get those answers and try and figure out a way to, you know, tell people, hey, your baby's at risk or you have an increased risk for this, this and that.
Speaker 2:What can patrol officers do on their initial reports? Is it more of a CID aspect that you guys are looking into? A lot of classes Jay, you can weigh in on this are either Patrol 1, meaning that the cop that just graduated the academy, this class is designed for them, or you have cops that are seasoned 20-year vets that you want to. Where is this class developed, or is it for everybody?
Speaker 4:So it's all of the above. It's really going to focus on either patrolmen or detectives that are, as part of their job, investigate infant deaths. So if you work in the jail or dispatch it doesn't really apply to you because you're not going to be on those scenes. Now, when you move to a role where you will be investigating those, then sure, and then it depends on how big your agency is. Right, some agencies have detectives. If they handle it, then they need to go to the training. Some smaller agencies the patrolmen you catch it, you clean it all the way through prosecution. So they're the detectives, so they need the training. So it just depends, and we're focusing mostly on the rural counties that are under.
Speaker 4:They don't have a medical examiner, so the JP is in charge of their death inquest. So we're training those agencies to do this type of investigation and gather the information that we need because it's not being gathered. So when you have a county that has a medical examiner, like Fort Bend County and Harris County, for example, the medical examiner investigators go to the death scene and they get I'm going to call it the SUTI form. So SUTI is Sudden, unexpected Infant Death Investigation. So the SUTI form and the DAL reenactment are done by the medical examiner's office, so law enforcement doesn't have to worry about it. In the rural counties the JPs aren't doing the SUTI form and the DAL reenactment and neither is law enforcement. I've never even heard of that. Yeah, so all reenactment and neither is law enforcement.
Speaker 3:I've never been heard of that. Yeah, yeah, so that that that's exactly the same. I mean, when he was telling me about this, I'm like I have no idea what you're talking about. And he knows I was, I was a CID supervisor at a good size agency, yeah, but we had a medical examiner's office. So, yeah, and that was when I realized like this training is needed, like I've been in law enforcement over 20 years connected to training, and I've never heard of a suity form, and you know.
Speaker 3:And then Danny's telling me about a doll that they bring to the scene to provide to, you know, the, the victim's parents, or you know the caretaker's parents, to say, hey, how are you holding this kid, how were well, how was the child positioned? Using a doll? And I had never heard that. I was like, wow, that's that's some very interesting and very needed training across the state, because, I mean, the majority of our members across the state of Texas, they don't work with medical examiner's offices, so we deal with a lot of rule. I mean, think about, skip up in the panhandle, there's a lot of rule counties. There's some counties that only have 3,000 people in them and they're going to send an officer there for this train. You know for this, this incident, and they're not going to know what to do or how to handle this situation. How often does that come up? And you know, in Pill County or whatever.
Speaker 2:So Marion County, you know it's population 5,000 up in Jefferson. Yeah, so we didn't have that.
Speaker 4:And see what a lot of people don't realize is even the counties, the rural ones, right, If you need an autopsy, there is a pathologist that your county contracts with to do autopsies, right, Because your JP can't do it. So they send the decedent somewhere to get an autopsy and it's going to be done by a medical examiner. It's typically a regional right Right.
Speaker 4:They're going to send it to Dallas or Austin or Houston or Fort Bend or wherever that has an MEES office. And so there's 15 other counties that we contract for and we provide their autopsy service. Those medical examiners 100% would love to get this information and will benefit from it, but they don't control that county and the law doesn't require that the suit form or the dollar reenactment be done, so it's not being done in the rural counties, being an investigator at an MES office again, which I've never heard of, and I think it's awesome that you are in that role.
Speaker 2:With Sid's death it's so difficult because I'm not saying that the case could be criminal, but if the parents were and I can't say the word negligent because of the mental, the mental aspect of it how would you investigate on a criminal case that if the child was a sit deemed a Sid's death but there might've been some negligence about how you know? Let's just say a kid was breastfeeding and the mom fell asleep, which happens, oh my God, all the time how would you investigate that case and look at it from a criminal aspect?
Speaker 4:Well, so we don't.
Speaker 4:We don't do things from a criminal aspect, so we do ours parallels law enforcement.
Speaker 4:So you're going to have your detective there and he's looking for the criminal aspect of things, right, because we always approach them like it could be a crime, right?
Speaker 4:Until we determine it's not, we go in there and it's a cross between law enforcement and medical Right. So when we're looking at it, we're looking at some of the same things that the police agencies are looking at, but we're also looking at things that they don't care about, that our doctors care about. We're there gathering the information for the doctors, because they're the ones that are going to try and use all the information to make a determination, especially in a natural case, when you have a clear homicide. There's no guess there, right, we know what happened, and then it's up to the police agency to do what they've got to do, to file charges. When you've got a natural or in a case with an infant where you don't know what happened, that's where you start collecting information about sleep, feeding and all those factors, so that they can start trying to pick away and figure out what the most likely cause of death is, on top of all the testing that they're going to do for the things that Savannah talked about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I guess this is going to be sent to where's the collection point of all this data? I'm sure obviously you're a part of that. To where's the collection point of all this data? I'm sure obviously you're a part of that. And this is is this a nation, national wide campaign? It was, it's not. I mean, in a sense it's not. Yeah, so you are truly launching this in Fort Bend County.
Speaker 1:In the state of Texas is the goal, but yeah. So the beauty of the U S but also a con, in some ways is is freedom. We don't want the bigger guy above us telling us what to do, which means that every county gets to decide how they do things and how they run things, which is wonderful for very many reasons, but it also limits us in situations like this, where everybody's going to have a different way to report data or document data. So right now, the way it works in Texas is there's groups called Child Fatality Review Teams, or CFRTs. Have you all heard of?
Speaker 3:those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so basically the job of the CFRTs in each region is to review every child fatality under the age of 18. Once they review those cases, they input them into a national database that's run jointly by the CDC and the National Center for Fatality Review and Prevention, and then that database is a national database that any researcher can request data from things like that. The problem is is that Texas is so large and there are so many rural counties. Most of these places don't have CFRTs and if they do, they're not meeting regularly and they don't have the data that they need. So even if they did meet about an infant fatality, they're not going to have a SUTI form, they're not going to have a doll reenactment, so they're not going to be able to answer most of the questions. So basically, what I'm doing is making these networks with Danny and training everyone to get all the data that we need. Then, serving as a grassroots movement, I made my own database to document it.
Speaker 1:Then hopefully eventually I can input that into the national database so that it's there. In the interim I basically made my own database to put it into you for the state of Texas.
Speaker 2:Has there been any legislative attempt to make it mandatory across the state up until this point, not that I'm aware of.
Speaker 4:And I think so. Savannah talked about the CFRTs. You remember CRTs? Mm-hmm for the child abuse. Yeah, so this is the same same thing, right? They just call them CFRTs.
Speaker 2:Hey, and the F stands for fatality.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Where's my kudos, bro? Good job, bud, thank you. Thank you, jay. He's from.
Speaker 3:East Texas.
Speaker 2:Okay, when I make a, when I make a, hoo-ha it's a big deal.
Speaker 4:Positivity. Baby, Absolutely. You got to bring your brothers up. Yeah, that's right, so y'all will appreciate this language right. Cf of bring your brothers up yeah, that's right, so, and y'all will appreciate this language right. Cfrts should happen, but there's no shall, that's right, right, so you understand that, oh yeah.
Speaker 4:So some places they're being done, some places they're not, and when they're not being done, the information isn't being collected and put where it needs to be put. So the first leg of this training, right, is to convince all the cops of these agencies to do stuff that nobody requires them to do. But we want them to do it and we're going to explain why it's important and hope that we can convince them to buy in to the fact that, hey, there's no instant gratification. You'll probably never know how many children you save, but it saves children, yeah, and a perfect example is through the years, they've decided that certain I don't want to say any names, but certain products aren't safe for children.
Speaker 4:Mm-hmm, you know mattresses or different devices you use for your kids. That came from information. Kids had to die in order for us to figure out that's not safe for kids. That's what the information is used for, on top of many other things. So that's the point of the first leg of the training is to convince people to start getting the information, getting the information sent in, sent in, and then we're going to work on getting it not to put you guys on the spot.
Speaker 2:And then we're going to work on getting it, not to put you guys on the spot, but if, because you're very intimate with this knowledge and this database at the grassroots level, the beginning, the stage of the infant, stages, no pun intended, who do you think would probably be more responsible to put their responsibilities on the county judge, would it not?
Speaker 3:or you can't put on one specific jp, because well, I mean, I look at it as more of a like. Like you said, every county reports to these inquests go to some medical examiner. So even you know, in the panhandle they probably go to like lubbock or hammerill, I don't don't know which one has an ME's office, but it seems like the ME's office would be the collector of that data, so getting it from those JPs and then being able to do the research, providing that research. You know that, that least to me.
Speaker 4:I don't know, maybe y'all have a different idea, but yeah, so the the County would be responsible for the CFRT right. So that starting with the county officials might be where you start to get that going. Now the information you send to you did Lubbock does have one.
Speaker 2:Good job. Lubbock has one Good job.
Speaker 1:Jay.
Speaker 4:If you contract with Lubbock, right? So you're sending this information to them, but you're from a different county than Lubbock, it's not their responsibility to hold your CFRT, right, it's your responsibility to hold it. But they are getting that information that you're providing so that they can use it for their autopsies, right? So it helps them.
Speaker 2:I guess my point is that this last year at legislation due to the fact of Uvalde, legislation was passed and actually it might have been two sessions ago, but every county in Texas to all 254, are mandated to, and I think it falls under the sheriff and or the county judge that they are required to have school safety briefings, almost like a task force, right. And so my thought process immediately is if we could work with you or kind of lay the foundation of like you know, we could work with you, or kind of lay the foundation of like, hey, this would be good and get that done, then it would standardize how this stuff is being reported, which is the sole purpose of everything anyway. Sure, right, and so that was, that was my initial thought process.
Speaker 4:Yeah, 100 percent. So the first thought on the unpopular opinion and if this ever happens, we'll blame Savannah because it's going to require the knuckle draggers to do more training, right, mandatory training. But it could be part of our mandatory training that we all have to do, right.
Speaker 2:Every yeah, but if they, but if you've implemented this stuff in the Academy, then you wouldn't have any bitches, because the Academy guys aren't going to grow up.
Speaker 4:Right, and, and so they get the training I learned something Right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, you can abuse the academy guys so they're getting the training at least right, but then there's no guarantee that it's going to be used. So the next step to that would be could be that it's like we have with family violence situations where there's mandatory forms you have to fill out. If you had an infant death and when you have this type of death you have to fill out this form that's required, then it would just be done. Yeah, patrol guys would grunt for a little while and then it would become part of life and move on.
Speaker 2:Y'all remember the and I don't mean to poke fun at the family violence, but it was a pain in our butt. It was the family violence bubble forms. Oh yeah, I'm so thankful. Well, we, when I transitioned to a larger department, we had secretaries that did it, based off our report.
Speaker 3:But yeah, I mean that's exactly a good point is, you know, we have to do those statutorily, we have to do those forms, I mean yeah no-transcript, and then, when it's passed, it gets watered down through the legislative process.
Speaker 2:Right, and so what becomes, or what was should, started as a shall, this shall be implemented, and this shall be done. Sometimes, because of amendments that are dropped on it and so forth in our legislative process, it becomes, uh, what'd you say? Should, I should, I should, and so that's that. Those two words mean totally different, I guess the spirit of the meaning behind it. And so what we're talking about is, if we can get this written as a shall for all law enforcement across Texas, then it would be beneficial really to the, our youth and our, our, the people who we want to protect anyway, as our kids, the, the continue our, our legacies of, like the Jay McClellans, you know, the Tyler Owens of the world. So, anyway, maybe we can work on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the next step of that, though, is having a standardized reporting method. So once the form's filled out, if it just sits in a department, it can't be used for anything. So having some kind of submission process even for those more rural counties where they don't have a CFRT, but send it somewhere where it can still be input and that data still be used, that's going to have to also be part of it, because otherwise, y'all are going to be spending all that time in those extra forms for nothing.
Speaker 2:Right, I'm going to say DPS should be responsible for housing the information. You don't get stuck with it in Fort Bend County.
Speaker 4:Somebody. You know I mean the information goes to the CDC at some point too, so you know maybe them somebody, but there's got to be somewhere to send it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. Well, when is the training going to start and maybe when? Where is the first training going to be held?
Speaker 4:So the plan is to eventually roll this out across the state and we'd like to have multiple training locations throughout the next year, but our first one is going to be in Victoria County Sheriff's Office, victoria, texas. It's October 10th and 11th, that's 8 to 5, 16 hours of free TCO credit and then we'll, you know, get the nuts and bolts squared away from that one and start trying to make connections. We've had people from other parts of the state already reach out and say hey, when are y'all coming to us? So that's cool, yeah, we're just. We're going to try and roll it out everywhere, but the first one that we've got scheduled right now is October 10th and 11th at Victoria County Sheriff's Office.
Speaker 2:We're going to drop y'all's information in this episode and also in the description, but if anybody has any inquiries, who can they contact? Who's the point of contact for these training sessions?
Speaker 3:Well, actually you can register through our website now. So I've set their link up through tmpaorg slash training Just look for it, the class Sudden Infra-Death and then you can register through our website so it'll take you to an external link. It'll take you to the Victoria County Sheriff's Office link you can fill out, sign up. So, yeah, I encourage you. You know, if you're in the coastal bend, you know it's not too far, sign up for that. But yeah, I mean so we've already kind of made it easy for them. I mean, so we've already kind of made it easy for them. That's kind of where we we kicked this off is trying to build this, you know this, this training up and saying, hey, this is, we need to get the word out. So we've been sharing it on, you know, social media and through our contacts in the training department here at TMPA, and so, yeah, we made it easy for them to sign up. They just can go to our website and click the link.
Speaker 4:Savannah's a busy, busy lady. If anybody does have questions, they can give me a call. If I can't answer the question, I'll bug her. Direct it over to her. I'm at the Fort Bend County Sheriff's Office. They can Google that number. I'm always there. Unfortunately, my job never ends.
Speaker 2:We greatly appreciate you guys coming on. We greatly appreciate you guys coming on. Yeah, for sure. Greatly appreciate you guys taking the initiative to talk about such an important topic. I mean, this is a big deal and it's just a simple one more process in collecting data that could potentially save hundreds of lives later on. So thank you all, I really appreciate it. Thank you, you got anything else, jay? No, so I want to know if you guys studied for the questions at the end of this episode? Absolutely, you didn't brief her, did you? No, each episode we do rapid fire. Yeah, I know that you're connected with law enforcement in such a manner that I'm going to continue to ask these questions anyway. All right, you ready? What is your favorite cop car, favorite line from a cop movie or favorite cop movie and your favorite drink of choice when you're off work hanging out? You being a bartender, this should be very detailed.
Speaker 4:You go first. Crown Vic that was mine, but you know I'm from. I started in 04, so that's all we have were the Vics. The Crown Vicks and I have survived some horrendous wrecks in the Crown Vicks.
Speaker 2:It's the workhorse man.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I love them. Yeah, my favorite cop show was literally this is going to sound dumb was Cops. Yeah, Literally I wish they'd bring it back. Man, yeah, I mean the Brooklyn Nine-Nines and different things that she loves. They're good shows, they're funny. They're not reality, so they're funny. But, man, I loved cops growing up. That's all I ever watched.
Speaker 2:My parents hated it, but yeah, I call them training videos. Yeah, 100%, we're training videos, babe.
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, they make you think that that's how being a cop is right, it's all fun, very good editing.
Speaker 2:They don't show you any of the paperwork, so I'll ask you guys this I would watch cops and be like man. That dude's got his belt keepers on a certain way on his back and I'm going to try that shit out tonight. And watch the different style of uniforms across America is really fascinating. I mean, you've got guys that wear, you know, like our DPS troopers. They used to wear the high-gloss, shiny, you know silver buttons, but now they're transitioning, I think, into a modern-day police uniform. But, man, I thought it was always interesting to watch you Like Florida, I love the green, I love the green.
Speaker 3:They all wear green.
Speaker 2:I know, but you had the huh like you didn't approve. No, I mean no, I mean you didn't like the green. I'm not a fan of the green, that's what I'm saying is that we all have different opinions of different uniforms look cool.
Speaker 3:They all look the same. In Florida, even their patches look the same. Yeah, they do. Their cars look the same it looks like Carmen.
Speaker 2:Where in the world is Carmen? San Diego.
Speaker 3:I actually have a funny story about cops. When I was with the sheriff's office in Fort Bend County, we had a disturbance down in Fresno and the guy that I arrested for family violence he was a cameraman for cops. He was the nicest guy I'd ever arrested.
Speaker 2:I bet he knew the process. I said man, I support the police.
Speaker 3:You know I'm a cameraman for cops, like well sorry bud, you know it's like. We found upon Sorry about that.
Speaker 4:Drink of choice? Definitely Whiskey on the Rocks. Yeah, what kind of whiskey Depends? Did I just get paid? Did I just get paid or not? If I just got paid, blends you know that's fair, that's fair.
Speaker 2:All right, you're up Favorite cop car.
Speaker 1:Kronvik.
Speaker 2:Yes, by far.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, it's a tie between the Wire and Brooklyn.
Speaker 2:Nine-Nine, I've never seen Brooklyn.
Speaker 1:Nine-Nine, the Wire is a good one.
Speaker 4:Brooklyn Nine-Nine is stupid funny.
Speaker 1:It is hilarious.
Speaker 4:You've seen the Wire? I have seen the Wire. That's like the cops we all wanted to be yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a PBR is my favorite drink.
Speaker 4:I can't be mad about that.
Speaker 1:It's the best beer in the world.
Speaker 3:I went to Louisville, kentucky, speaking of PBR. If you order a PBR, they give you a shot of whiskey with every PBR you order in Louisville Kentucky. If you go to Louisville order a PBR Just to get the shot, it comes with a shot of whiskey.
Speaker 4:In most bars. We need to do this training in Louisville.
Speaker 3:Kentucky we can bring a nation wine.
Speaker 2:I hope it's not Angel's Emmy Just throwing it out there, oh yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, you can go back and listen to one podcast and you'll find out about Angel's Emmy.
Speaker 2:I'm having a good day. I'm having a good day.
Speaker 4:Hey, my favorite going to be a road roach, oh yeah dps trooper right, love their uniforms. Those guys always look sharp. But it didn't work out. I decided down the road I wanted to be a more of a patrol cop than a street cop. Uh, you know I don't want to be mean, I love troopers, but um, but, yeah, man, their uniforms, I love them and I love that they haven't changed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I love it well, they're changing a little bit because of the border operation and so forth, but but man, what an iconic, really uniform they've got. I posted something on Texas FOP's Facebook today about a Belgium. I guess his position is a national police officer and this dude loved Texas so much he took his looks like a Tesla.
Speaker 3:It is a Tesla. It's called a post, yeah.
Speaker 2:He painted it just like DPS. He loves Texas that much.
Speaker 1:We were just talking about those stupid trucks, they just came out with oh, the Cybertruck, they are awesome.
Speaker 2:Dps got some. No, a lot of police agencies are getting some.
Speaker 1:They are so cool, but they look hideous.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know, man, I don't know. I'm up in the air Me living near the Austin area. You see a lot of them.
Speaker 4:There's some trucks that kind of grow on you and then, but this one, they're bulletproof. I get it, I mean, but I just they say like, but I'm like old school ford chevy like flat nose trucks.
Speaker 2:Yeah, make it look like one of those 84 chevy silver. Yes, yeah, with that big block man, you know. Oh, then, maybe it sounds like your tummy, like your stomach's, messed up when you start yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely Blah blah, blah yeah. The glass packs. Maybe I should have said that that was East Texas in me, I agree with you.
Speaker 1:It's not pretty, but it is functional.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what I tell my wife all the time. Me, I meant me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, see I went down the wrong, oh my.
Speaker 2:God, you guys, take care, stay safe. We're going to put all the information about this important training in the description, including your email. We're going to put your email out there. That way, the whole world can know and give you some fan love?
Speaker 3:Well, they can just email us training at tmpaorg and I'll get it to them. However we want to do it. But yeah, I mean, I believe this training is very important. I'd love to see it blossom and go statewide and really make a difference. Educating cops and educating the community to save lives really is what it's about. You said blossom, well, thank you.
Speaker 2:I try to use bigger words and it just spirited. I just got spirited right there, yeah, alright. Well, I guess we'll end on that. You guys take care, stay safe. God bless you and, as always, may God bless Texas no-transcript.
