#095- "The Road Ahead" with APA President Michael Bullock

In this powerful episode, Austin Police Association President Michael Bullock discusses the critical issues facing Austin's law enforcement community. President Bullock candidly addresses the ongoing hostile working environment with the Travis County District Attorney, shedding light on the challenges this dynamic creates for officers on the ground.

Despite these tensions, President Bullock provides an insightful update on what lies ahead for the Austin Police Association, emphasizing resilience and strategic planning to protect its members and uphold public safety. He also speaks openly about the ongoing struggle to maintain morale within the association, offering a behind-the-scenes look at how APA leadership is working tirelessly to support their officers during these trying times.

This episode is a must-listen for anyone invested in the future of law enforcement in Austin, highlighting the grit and determination required to lead through uncertain times.

Transcript

Social Security Fairness Act Discussion

Speaker 1 0:00

against our own people, like they went as far as they're trying. They tried to accuse an officer that we were just trying to cover up for each other and it's like everything is on body cam. Like what are we going to cover up? We're not trying to cover anything up. It's not our fault that this guy had a knife, that he was high on meth and he was drunk.

Speaker 2 0:23

Welcome back viewers. Welcome back viewers, watchers, listeners, I'm your host tyler owen and clem mcnear.

Speaker 3 0:33

What's going on? El presidente just flew in this morning, just drove in this morning.

Speaker 2 0:36

That's about to say well, you probably did fly in bones.

Speaker 3 0:39

I've have ridden with you before following the speed limit, just drove in. All is good man. Things are busy watching the uh social security fairness act for the web gpo and it's in dc.

Speaker 2 0:51

Last week trying to work on that a little bit so, uh, the hashtag, what's the hashtag fop is using right now? The peel the steel. Yeah. So, uh, clint and I are on a text thread together it's just me and him but we we handle a lot of the texas fop media and so he had posted something online and this is just a banter between colleagues and brothers. But I text him and I was like, hey, did you mean to put the steal? Like I didn't understand my little dumbass brain, I didn't understand what the hell he was talking about and I hadn't been really keeping up with it. But for those that don't know, that's what the hashtag is meaning, and repeal the steal is meaning that they're wanting the Social Security back. But it was funny because I sent you the text and I was like, hey, did you mean to put this in there? And you could tell there was a long pause of like oh, I have to deal with idiots someday. And so he finally responded back and explained what you meant.

Speaker 3 1:40

So I appreciate it. It's a fair question, my bad.

Speaker 2 1:43

I'd rather be questioned than be allowed to screw up. Well, I didn't know what the hell you were talking about. I was like maybe Brock and him were busy doing something and I didn't understand like what the hell he was talking about. So anyway, it was pretty funny, we got Brock in the studio.

Speaker 3 1:54

We do have.

Speaker 3 1:55

Brock in the studio, our Forney High School graduate class of questions People don't understand what it is WEP is windfall elimination and GPO is government pension offset and what it is police, fire, teachers, postal carriers. About 40 years ago legislation was passed so that we don't get full Social Security as everyone else does. We get penalized for that. And what really hit home? Yesterday I was visiting with my dad about it. My dad did 34 years at Dallas PD and he was asking me about it and he was quite crusty about it. Your dad, he was crusty. That's shocking. His $1,200 a month social security that he should receive is $94. Oh, wow.

Speaker 2 2:52

Damn.

Speaker 3 2:53

So, whereas everybody else, I guess, that matches his criteria is getting $1,200. His check is $94. And that hit home that he chose a career in law enforcement and is getting penalized $1,100 a month for choosing to do that. So that's the passion behind it. Everybody's seen it on Twitter is all the discussion in the arenas of police and fire and the teachers and everybody, and God bless our teachers because they should be paid more and taken better care of, for sure too. But that's what GPO Cliff Notes version, and today this won't air today. Today is Friday, today's Friday. Yeah, today is the 20th.

Speaker 3 3:36

Yeah sure and it's going to be voted today or tomorrow. It's passed the House overwhelmingly bipartisan. Shockingly, it's in the Senate. It's passed a cloture vote. Last night it passed a motion to proceed. Vote today, late or in the morning, will be uh discussion where senator cruz is going to introduce an amendment to try and kill it. Senator crepo is going to introduce an amendment to try and kill it. Senator Grassley is going to introduce a poison pill to try and kill it. But we're hopeful. We're hopeful and we were supposed to only have about 60 votes on it.

Speaker 2 4:12

We're hopeful and we've gotten 73 ayes, any politicians promise to vote for it?

Speaker 3 4:20

No, but we've had some people say no, they were dead set. No, and when President-elect Trump told FOP National President Pat Yost in Mar-a-Lago meeting in person about three days ago that he thought it was a good bill and it better pass, suddenly some of our no votes were yes votes. Oh wow, and I'm thankful for it. Huge kudos, because he's been great to work with Senator Cornyn. Yeah, he's very concerned about it and he's voted yes. He's voted yes so far and ever vote to support. And it comes down to everybody wants to come to Texas and get their picture made with a cop, but when it gets down to it, are you actually supporting the police or do you just like your picture taken with us?

Speaker 2 5:02

Well, well, those endorsements need to be repaid at some point. So, yep, anyway, speaking of change, uh, we our guest today, uh, michael bullock, austin police association president, the lot. Yeah, the minor is in the house. So, first off, thank you for stopping by. I know that, quite, you're quite the busy man, obviously on twitter and doing videos and, uh, eating lunch with jose garza, and so I'm glad that you uh took the busy man, obviously on Twitter and doing videos and eating lunch with Jose Garza, and so I'm glad that you took the time out of your busy schedule.

Speaker 1 5:30

Yeah, number one lunch buddy.

Speaker 2 5:31

Yeah, that's right. I'm glad that you took the time out of your busy schedule to stop by. A lot of changes going on at Austin POA For the great, you know, for the good. You guys are on an uphill battle right now with different situation, so we wanted to come on and kind of give everybody an update. With the contract, new police chief, I mean, there's a lot of shit going on in Austin.

Speaker 3 5:48

My first question when do you sleep?

Speaker 1 5:50

What's that? What's sleep? When do you sleep?

Speaker 2 5:54

At 1 o'clock in the morning, definitely don't yeah.

Speaker 1 5:57

It's not so much sleep as much as it is intermittent naps is basically what you're operating off of.

Speaker 2 6:02

The nap deal today for the first time was great. Yeah, I never got up. I slept all the way through from like 4 o'clock in the afternoon to 7 o'clock the next morning.

Speaker 3 6:11

It was awesome. That's the nap I'm talking about.

Speaker 1 6:14

I think they called it passing out. Yeah, I needed it. Clearly, clearly I'd say so, yeah, anyway, those are good ones.

Speaker 3 6:20

Yeah, they are Angels. Envy will do that to you.

Speaker 2 6:22

Well, they'll also make you pissed a bit. I'm not going to dive into that.

Speaker 1 6:26

But yeah, man, thanks for stopping by.

Speaker 2 6:29

Let's kind of crank off to last time you were here. Not that this situation has changed, but there is a district attorney here in Travis County that's not really pro-law enforcement, and so you know, I know that's shocking to everybody.

Speaker 2 6:45

That's the most mild description I think I've ever heard, but I think that he is trying to get back to center, or so he claimed. And then we had the Christopher Taylor trial. So there's a lot that's happened since you came on the first time. So if you want to start off by giving us kind of an update of how that relationship is going with the DA's office, what you see moving forward, and then kind of give us an update on what's going on on the criminal aspect and how your officer's morale is doing yeah, it's been a busy year.

Speaker 1 7:13

It's been almost exactly a year, I think, since we did this last, but there's been a lot going on in just a year.

Speaker 1 7:21

But the the da, oh geez. Um, that relationship, shockingly uh, is no different than it was about a year ago. I know it's just the craziest thing. Um, probably doesn't help. All the uh, all the stuff that I've been doing, uh, talking about him either not sure he loves my videos about him, uh or talking about all the things he's actually let happen. So that doesn't seem like it's won him over as a friend either.

Speaker 3 7:46

I think he's like Jerry Jones, though Bad press is still press.

Speaker 1 7:49

You're still saying my name.

Speaker 3 7:50

Yeah, you're still saying my name.

Speaker 1 7:52

That was what a guy at the Capitol used to tell me. All the time he was like, hey, as long as they spell my name right, it's good press, it works for me. Ask Chris Rock about how to keep a yeah, yeah, oh it's. It's been a busy year for a lot of different aspects. You know the the chris taylor trial that just kind of all wrapped up that one was a. That was even more eye-opening because you get to hear and I sat through the entire thing.

Speaker 2 8:16

Uh, we were there for every little bit of it and for those that don't know, because you may not understand what the chris, for those live in austin yeah, explain from kind of a sort of cliff notes of start to finish, of kind of what happened and then what ended up happening with the trial.

Speaker 1 8:29

So Christopher Taylor's officer with the Austin police department, obviously, um, he was involved in two uh officer involved shootings, one that happened back in 2019. And then one that happened, uh, back around. I think it was 2020, 2021, is when the second one happened. We had a trial last year for one of those shootings and it was one that happened involving a suspect named Mike Ramos, and that became part of our 2020 protest too. So I want to say that one did happen.

Speaker 2 8:59

Also on the heels of essentially getting Garza elected, and that's a lot of fuel that.

Speaker 1 9:07

So there were a lot of issues with that first trial to begin with, where we had jury tampering, we had a mistrial and then we had a hung jury that came up with all of that one. So that one wound up kind of getting resolved and we got word that that one was going to be dismissed. So the trial that we just went through was for a shooting where Taylor and other officers responded to a condo complex here in Austin and it was a guy that was wandering around, acting erratic, had a knife, and so they got word that he was up on a common floor within a condo complex and so they go up to this you know, up to the gym floor is basically what it was. They go up to that floor to go make contact with them because they could see on a security camera he was wandering around in this common area and he's got a knife kind of an important thing that we get there to. You know, get there quickly.

Speaker 1 9:50

So they go up the elevator in the elevator. They go up in the elevator, the doors open and the guy's standing like 10 feet ish away from them, less than 10 feet. He turns around. He was holding the knife to his neck, but then he turns around, he lowers the knife and it's pointed at them, and then he starts walking towards him and then they're yelling commands at him. He doesn't comply, he keeps walking at him, and when he's within about three feet is when they wind up shooting him. And so way closer than oh, any most, yeah, that's that's a 21 foot rule right.

Speaker 2 10:21

That's a lot of restraint to let someone get that close and timeout last year's trial I don't know if you mentioned this or not it was found he was not guilty, it's a huge breaking news.

Speaker 1 10:32

Well, it was a hung jury.

Speaker 2 10:33

That's okay.

Speaker 1 10:33

Yeah it was a hung jury, so yeah, they wound up ultimately saying the DA said ultimately he was going to dismiss it. They took it back to a grand jury for the original one and they opted not to indict again, which was shady enough. Shady enough to decide, oh, I'm going to take it back to a grand jury and see if we can go at this another way. And so this was basically round three of going through a trial for Taylor. A ridiculous amount of stress that goes with all of that. Not just him, your people, oh yeah, like Austin police officers too.

Speaker 1 11:11

Everybody's watching, uh watching this trial because it has huge consequences for us, right, major impact, uh from morale and just job stability. Like, am I going to be the next one? What kind of calls are we going to all of that? But they wound up. They originally indicted uh taylor on this one, the downtown shooting for for murder, but then they lowered it to deadly conduct and for especially those in texas that are probably familiar, deadly conduct is a very broad statute and one it was never intended for what the da used it for. It was intended primarily for, like driveby shootings.

Speaker 2 11:42

Very similar to official oppression.

Speaker 1 11:43

They're still in it out there, yeah, and so Sorry, nice subtle hint, yeah. So he wound up using that statute to go after Taylor and, after hearing everything and the assistant district attorneys, their strategy and the way they treated our officers was pretty disgusting. Their strategy and the way they treated our officers is pretty disgusting, listening to the things, the accusations that they made against our own people. They went as far as they tried to accuse an officer that we were just trying to cover up for each other and it's like everything is on body cam. What are we going to cover up? We're not trying to cover anything up.

Speaker 2 12:29

It's not our fault that this guy had a knife, that he was high meth and he was drunk and then you framed him. Sounds like you'll frame, I know right, like that's what.

Speaker 1 12:32

That's what they shot him up. Yeah, that's what no pun intended, that's tried to. That's that's what they tried to portray it as like, and and they just kept coming after the department, after officers, and it, like I said it, it was just, it was pretty despicable what they were doing.

Speaker 3 12:46

In any other overreach perverting the law because, like you said, deadly conduct Garland in the early 90s, and the gangs were big, deadly conduct was a huge charge because that's what we had for drive-bys, y'all had gangs in Garland. Allegedly, oh okay, allegedly, just clarifying that point. But we did away with the gang unit so that people wouldn't think that we had gangs, and so that fixed it.

Speaker 1 13:07

Well, that's what we did in austin. It's fine. Oh, you don't gang.

Speaker 3 13:10

You can't have gangs but what's crazy is like they.

Speaker 2 13:12

They austin has my cliented people like like what, and what I mean by that is this is like garland, right, the cops in garland and the da's office people that work there are are like-minded in the sense of like the mentality behind the da's office. They live in austin, right, and so there's a different culture here, but the culture amongst the police officers here are very much similar to like. They like the lifestyle of austin. Like the lifestyle of austin is what it is right, and so what's crazy is, like some departments, like in east texas, the mentality there is a little bit different than you would like in Austinite. These are the same people that you're walking the halls with in the same criminal justice centers in the courthouse, and why are we so against each other when we're working towards the same common goal?

Speaker 3 13:56

That's my point. It's crazy, but in the point I was saying they're perverting deadly conduct, because that's not what it was.

Speaker 2 14:04

They're overreaching.

Speaker 3 14:05

They're making it sound like it was this big RICO conspiracy that you guys plotted to go do this. But if the tables were turned and they were saying that we overcharged someone or we perverted a law just so that we could over-prosecute someone.

Speaker 3 14:19

We would get indicted and criminally prosecuted for it. Yeah, for exactly what they're trying to do to every officer involved incident that comes down here. Yeah, and the law didn't apply exactly, but let's pervert it or let's try and do something, or yeah, in the law that applies. We know we'll never get an indictment, so we don't want to use that one right.

Speaker 1 14:38

well, and then you start getting into and and this is where it just gets infuriating for law enforcement and a lot of other folks in Travis County that don't agree with the DA in particular is the hypocrisy of it all, because I started digging through and there is multiple examples cases where someone is charged with deadly conduct and nothing happens with it or they get tweeted yesterday had a huge burden.

Speaker 1 15:08

You know, talk about that, yeah, and, and the most recent example, obviously, is that we had daniel perry, right, he went through, uh, he went through a trial and he, you know, the governor pardoned him, but now they're going back and it looks like I went back and dug through the case a little bit, cause this one is there. There's two different versions.

Speaker 1 15:29

Right, there's a misdemeanor on the felony version of death and conduct and so they're going after him now on the misdemeanor version. So they're using the County attorney's office to go after him. So that way it's a different charge. It seems like, and it looked like it initially got dropped as part of his original part and everything else, because it was it. There's like no activity on the case, but then they picked it right back up and now they're pushing forward again. It's like you already went through the trial. The governor pardoned him, but no, no, we can't have that here in travis county let's go for round two.

Speaker 1 15:57

Yeah, and that's what. That's what's happening to the cops too you can't be embarrassed.

Speaker 3 16:00

And if this fails, then write him a ticket for disorderly conduct or something.

Speaker 1 16:03

By God, we have to get something. Yeah, you have to do something and they'll give you the maximum penalty for that one.

Speaker 2 16:07

The interesting thing about all that is the same law firms handling both of those cases that they got embarrassed on.

Speaker 1 16:15

That's the fascinating part about it all.

Speaker 2 16:17

They got their number, and so now they're trying to weaponize the law, essentially to prove a point.

Speaker 1 16:22

And that's exactly what it is the law essentially to prove a point. And that's exactly what it is it's weaponizing the law, it's weaponizing the system against law enforcement, whereas if you're actually a dude, some bad guy that's wandering out there committing crime, hurting other people, shooting other people, shooting at other people, committing all this violent crime, they need to be reformed, we need to be lenient, we need to do whatever we can to avoid charging them, punishing them, all this other kind of stuff. But if you're a cop, by God like, we're going to bring everything we have to the table. And one of the more interesting things too that I saw kind of hit my desk a couple of weeks ago um, right after the Taylor trial, the sentencing period ended is when, or right right towards the end.

Austin Law Enforcement Relationships and Challenges

Speaker 1 17:05

It may not have been when it was quite finished, but there was another case where there was a guy that was arrested for homicide and got picked up and then he was being held in the Travis County jail on like a million dollar bond. Well, because the DA's office was so focused on Taylor and they had given like there were four assistant district attorneys in the courtroom pretty much at any given time, more than what happens on other regular homicide trials for people who are actually out there wandering around killing people for no reason. Um, because they were so focused on Taylor, they weren't ready to go to trial on this homicide case and so they had passed a window and the bond got reduced from a million dollars to a dollar. Wow, so you want to talk about neglect of duty and wrong priorities, like? This guy is so focused on prosecuting cops that he completely ignored another homicide trial and the guy's bond got reduced to $1.

Speaker 3 18:04

My new favorite word is lawfare. Lawfare, the weaponization of the law, lately, the last year, the last 18 months there's examples everywhere, but it's insane. It's out of control. It's insane and you hit on hypocrisy For whatever reason. Austin's the capital of it. You have Kazar, who hates.

Speaker 2 18:25

The police wants them defunded. We're good friends with him.

Speaker 3 18:27

And then asks for extra patrol. Oh yeah, after he says that y'all are too violent and you don't need police around, then he wants extra patrol. Then you have our district attorney who does everything he can to indict the police and then subversively, gets a Wants his own private security detail. Taxes the citizens for his own personal detail.

Speaker 1 18:55

After they tried to hide the original costs. Yes, and we're like, oh no, no, we can't disclose all that information about how much it would cost us to do all of this, and his wife.

Speaker 2 19:03

Being the fact of what you know, she holds the position of being the secretary to the county judge. They tried to withhold that information. You can't tell me right now that there was not some shady shit that went on with that deal. Then you got the city council.

Speaker 3 19:24

I think they called her mackenzie, mackenzie kelly, the police whore, or they oh yeah, they named her. I mean, yeah, like the hypocrisy in austin's there it's very alive, so bad, because how dare she support the police? Oh my goodness, yeah, we are the enemy, obviously. So stupid.

Speaker 1 19:32

Yeah, it's been, it's been wild. He has given us the da, in particular has given us no shortage of material to post on social media.

Speaker 2 19:41

That's for sure. Yeah well, I think I'm about to get ramped back up. We had kind of taken a little bit of break because, um, for those that don't know, I'll just go ahead and say it I don't give a damn. I was at the ut game and uh ended up running into him so that's not what you're embarrassed to talk.

Speaker 3 19:56

No, no, no, no, yeah, hook them, hook them.

Speaker 2 19:58

Uh, weekend, by the way, I hope they beat the shit out of Clemson. But anyway, I'm at the Orange and White game and Janet walks up to my wife. She's like hey, you're not going to believe this. I'm like what. She's like Jose Garza's here and I was like what, I'm not going to say anything. It's Saturday.

Speaker 2 20:22

I'm like hey, I said Mr Garza, and I tapped on his shoulder and turned around. He said Tyler Owen. And I was like holy shit, this guy knows who I am. I do exist. And he said yeah, I'm a big fan of all your videos being a smartass joking around. And so we talked very briefly, but he continues to go back to just how, all these policies and so forth. And look, when I'm on, when I'm talking, it's my time off, my family, it's my time off, and so all I wanted to do is just for him to put a face with a name, and that's exactly what I told him. I said I just wanted to let you know, I'm not a keyboard warrior. This is who, this is what. And the whole time he's telling me this, I look back and his son and my son are playing together. So I said yeah, what the hell are you doing up here anyway? And he's like oh my son, blah, blah, blah. And I look back and that time I see my son playing with his and I said I'll be damned.

Speaker 1 21:08

He's like what's that?

Speaker 2 21:09

I said the fact that our kids are playing together in Austin, texas, right now, and he switched to change the conversation and I said listen, it's Saturday. How about we be fucking dads today and then Monday we can pick back up being enemies? Yeah, and he's like, okay, well, then that progressed and we got a meeting that I don't want to say this on camera, but you were invited to. But then he withdrawed and wanted it just to be TMPA, so you and him obviously don't see eye to eye. He withdrawed and wanted it just to be TNPA, so you and him obviously don't see eye to eye. But we were going for the simplicity of trying to strengthen law enforcement relationships and so forth and it's been beneficial. But it's progressed and so we're meeting once a month, but I haven't met with him since the Christopher Taylor trial. Yeah, we meet at a little place and have breakfast and candle lights, and it's been nice, yeah.

Speaker 1 21:58

Set the mood. Set the mood, yeah For the script. Yeah, I've offered to meet with him. I've offered to meet with him several times. I still offer. If, for whatever reason, he listens to any venue, any podcast, any media interview, whatever, I will very gladly meet at any time, because I'm like I have no problems talking about these things face-to-face. I'm not also going to hide my discontent.

Speaker 2 22:23

And what's fascinating is he asked me during a meeting one time he said what do you think? How do I get back to center, how do I get back to where the police can respect me at least? And I was like well, that's a long road. I was like, but jump in a car, Get in a car with these guys and gals and look at what they do every single day. You have the 30 000 view from where you're at in your office very comfortably, because you're safe and sound because of austin police officers. But if you actually get into a squad car and do ride alongs, that's where that's where the relationship.

Speaker 1 22:51

Well, I mean he hasn't yet, but he's got an invite. I'll take him out we can go right now.

Speaker 3 22:55

he won't, he doesn't want to see the truth.

Speaker 2 22:59

That's true.

Speaker 1 22:59

I mean that's his call, but I'd take him out.

Speaker 3 23:03

I've taken a lot of people out. All right, Garza, I'm personally challenging you to take Michael up on that. He won't do it, but I'm personally challenging you Go right out.

Speaker 1 23:13

There you go, the offer's there.

Speaker 3 23:15

I'll do it, not on a Sunday at noon.

Speaker 1 23:17

Yeah, Not on a Sunday at noon. We're going to go work a Friday night a Saturday night? Yes, we're going to go do it when it's busy.

Speaker 2 23:23

And TMPA will provide the vest. That way, there's no. If something were to happen, it's not on me, it's not on Austin Police Association.

Speaker 1 23:30

Yeah, absolutely, I'm thinking outside the box here, I appreciate that I'm thinking it's dangerous.

Speaker 3 23:35

Is it a knife-proof vest, in case they come across somebody with a knife? Uh-huh.

Speaker 1 23:40

Huh, Just a question. I mean I'd say it's a valid one, Just a question we could get. I mean we were contemplating buying chain mail now.

Speaker 3 23:48

Maybe we should start issuing chain mail for the department that's awesome Well you know it's so complex.

Speaker 2 23:55

And every time I see something that he puts out, you know, bo, and every time I see something that he puts out, you know, boasting about some kind of conviction that he's got, it makes me cringe. And so it just sucks because you guys are trying to do a good job, which they do, but it's just a challenge that the Austin Police have to go through.

Speaker 2 24:08

On top of the other situation that you've got going on with the recruitment and retention. But what else is going on with APA besides the debacle of the DA's office and the relationship there?

Speaker 3 24:17

It's a contract, the debacle of the EA's office and the relationship there. It's a contract.

Speaker 1 24:18

Well, I was going to say on the positive side after golly seven months of negotiating again round two, three, whatever this one was, we finally have a contract. We are back under contract and it's been nice. It's finally a moment where you can take a little bit of a breath and have one big task done. It was quite the task to get it done, but was that?

Speaker 2 24:45

majority of council? Uh well, obviously, duh, I'm an idiot, but I'm talking about was it. Was it were there lone council members that did not agree one?

Speaker 1 24:54

there was one lone council member one, zoe cadre oh, decided that he did not want to support the contract. Everybody else did. He did not. And even more ironic was that it's his district that showed up the most in favor of the contract no kidding, I know. And then it's also his district that was the most vocal about the importance of a contract His one, like downtown, which is the area that he represents.

Speaker 2 25:22

But doesn't he?

Speaker 1 25:22

represent his district. So he says Okay. So he says Wow, I'm trying to understand. You got me as to his logic and all of it, because he was the first one to speak. He was the first one to speak when they started taking a vote and he said he felt like it didn't and he had heard from his constituents that it didn't match the priorities of his district.

Speaker 2 25:46

It didn't match his agenda is what it boiled down to.

Speaker 1 25:49

That's probably more appropriate, because we, for the first three hours of that hearing was nothing but business owners and residents, primarily in downtown, saying, hey, this is really important we need. Like we're suffering as a result of not having enough cops, of, you know, not being able to deal with thefts that are occurring at stores, property being damaged at you know, apartment complexes, hotels, all that other kind of stuff. And apparently that had no impact on him, and so he was, was he was the lone vote that said no, he didn't support the contract. Everybody else did. Oh, and it took I mean, it took a lot of work to get the contract done, but ultimately, like we came to, came to a solution and to a version that really did, like it matched. It was the middle ground. It wasn't all to one side. No one really walked out being like, hey, we got everything. We gave them the shaft on all this. That did not happen. It was a fair and balanced contract. My opinion.

Speaker 1 26:53

That's how negotiations go Give and take that's how it's supposed to work. That's awesome, but definitely a perk. That's how it's supposed to work. It's all so, but you know, definitely, definitely perk. You know we've dealt with a lot of crap over the last four, five, seven years, really, um, since 2017. And so getting past all that is a huge moment and it wound up being it is one of the biggest, actually, I think, according to our negotiator, ron DeLorde it ronda lord, it was the biggest contract in texas history.

Speaker 3 27:23

Yeah, yeah, the dawn, yeah. So when was that last council meeting where they were going to try and ratify a contract and it was like a 20-hour jerry springer episode that was, uh, yeah, february of february of 23, I think I was in california and the instructor, um, I was proud to be me and and Mike Gomez, were the only two in the entire audience, of probably two he's never called me and cried.

Speaker 2 27:42

This was a moment he called. I literally had to talk him off the list.

Speaker 3 27:46

There's only two of us from Texas in there and we're kind of laughing that we're the only two guys that have it good in life In the president.

Speaker 2 27:54

So you thought Former president.

Media Perception and Law Enforcement Support

Speaker 3 27:56

Former president of Oakland POA Irish guy I'll think of his name in a minute Freaking, amazing dude. He gets up and hits a button and it's a montage.

Speaker 1 28:09

It's from that night.

Speaker 3 28:10

It's from our council meeting and it almost looks like an SNL skit.

Speaker 1 28:15

I'm sure it did. It can't possibly be real, but it is and it goes on and on and it gets worse and worse.

Speaker 3 28:21

Yeah, and you, I'm looking around and all these California cops, literally from all over California, are like oh yeah, and he goes, guys, let's thank God we're not from Austin. Let's thank God we're not from Austin, texas. Yeah and uh, I'm like oh my God, I'm trying to crawl under the table. So he starts telling them about y'all's current contract situation. And all of them on the break are like man thank God we're not from Texas and I'm like dude when California is thankful they're not from Texas. We're in a bad way.

Speaker 1 28:50

Yeah, I actually went to a conference earlier this year and it was one of some of the larger cities from all across the country and you stand up, you do a little intro, say who you're from or where you're from all that other kind of stuff, and it's always like it's borderline shaming. Because you stand up and it's like hey, I'm Michael Bullock, I'm from Austin and they're all like, ooh, Everyone's like it's just this sigh of pity for you.

Speaker 1 29:17

I can imagine and then you start hearing and it's New York and it's LA and it's Oakland and it's all these guys around the room and it's like why are they pitying me? That's pitiful dude. I'm like this is shameful.

Speaker 3 29:28

Hi Michael, I'm from.

Speaker 1 29:29

Austin.

Speaker 2 29:30

This is water, not vodka. Sure sure. Whatever you say we wouldn't blame you if it was who gives a shit. It could be vodka and it's the style of Angels Indy. Two-year contract Five.

Speaker 3 29:46

Five-year contract Five-year contract Outstanding.

Speaker 1 29:49

It is the longest contract we've ever had, largest contract we've ever had.

Speaker 2 29:54

Rumors had it because Zara was in support of that.

Speaker 1 29:57

Well, that would indeed be a rumor. As far as I'm aware, he didn't call and tell me yeah, shockingly enough.

Speaker 2 30:03

Maybe we can arrange that. Yeah, yeah, maybe Kazar can come on and talk about the pro-police aspects of things. Hang on, I'm going to hold my breath Again we're not opposing that.

Speaker 1 30:13

No, I got a text message from him the other day, uh, and he said I mean it was a campaign one. He wasn't texting me directly, but you know, I got a text from the other day saying that he was going to do a town hall or whatever, asking for support so that way they can support workers rights.

Speaker 2 30:27

We're pro worker uh, you know agenda, did you?

Speaker 1 30:31

get warm inside and feel like, yes, take the charge. Oh yeah, yeah, I got all the warm and fuzzies, uh, just like I did the last time I listened to one of his teletown halls or whatever. And he starts talking about all these union rights, all this other kind of stuff. But then one word gets mentioned about cops and for some reason his tone change. It's kind of odd yeah.

Speaker 2 30:51

Well, it's kind of weird. We're excited that you know the contract's up and going, five year contract's significant for any type of law enforcement, but you got that going on. Uh, what else is going on with apa?

Speaker 2 30:59

I mean you guys again you got a turbulent relationship with the da on his part, and then you got a contract going, yeah, which are both positives, but you guys are still 700 down, yeah, seven or eight hundred down on on paper for what you guys are slaughtered for. So, um, y'all just ben muis and um, uh, yeah yeah, scott balder, scott balder, they had a huge run, uh, a success. What was it? What was it called? Uh rio to red, the rio to red phenomenal run, every single day 25, 25. I think they did 28 miles a day each purpose.

Speaker 1 31:29

Yeah, I know yeah, I know it's wild oh, I I raised some money, though.

Speaker 3 31:33

Yeah, I question their sanity all the time, but they keep doing it, oh yeah they're awesome folks.

Speaker 1 31:38

They did a lot of good stuff. Um, they've done a lot of fundraisers. This one was a cool one. Yep, you know they did. They ran all the way from the rio grande river to the red river. Uh, yeah and uh, and they just like marched on like they. They soldiered on through the whole thing and it was really cool to see, so I ran with them, uh through austin.

Speaker 2 31:56

Chunk yep through austin not all the way through austin?

Speaker 1 31:58

yeah, I was trying to throw you out there man, I appreciate it, but you know I know my, I know my place, I am not the. I stuck with them for as long as I could. You know started south of downtown and I did make it to north.

Speaker 2 32:10

When y'all ran, I think y'all were carrying a texas blue line flag, or is that? Is that?

Speaker 1 32:15

correct. So through austin we were, they were carrying flags that had the names of all the officers that have been killed in the line of duty and so for in austin in austin. Yeah, so for every mile we switched out the flag for a different officer for the, for the listener out there.

Speaker 2 32:30

They have this, this, this ideology that you know, everybody in austin hates cops right talk about the support that y'all got, because I heard it was pretty phenomenal of coming through Austin and that right there is a testament of what the city truly is.

Speaker 1 32:42

Yeah, no, it was great. We had a lot of people that turned out. It was especially cool Like a lot of other officers came and ran with them as well.

Speaker 1 32:49

Even when we did get out of Austin and they wound up in Round Rock, all these other cities. People kept running with them. We did have some folks from the public that showed out van zand apparel. They were huge supporters. They donated the gear. They gave them, uh, custom shirts. They did stuff for the peace officers memorial foundation, so like it was a lot of support for it. A lot of great people turned out and just to see the folks that are willing to help us continue to honor people who were killed in the line of duty was, I mean, it was huge, very powerful we just talked about it a while ago.

Speaker 2 33:19

Y'all built some great relationships. There's a guy that many of you may know. He's kind of small, he's not really but Joe Rogan kind of a small guy. Anyway he's super supportive of you guys. Yeah, big time. I mean, he has thrown some money for some fundraisers, but he's also given y you all an opportunity to do what was it like? A funny night, a comedy night?

Speaker 1 33:39

Yeah, yeah, he's done some shows where, like he lets law enforcement come over to you know, listen to him. Some other comedy, like just have a night out, like yeah, he's been awesome. A lot of the folks that are you know big names here in Austin or folks that are just in general they're supportive of police that have the ability to do something they're stepping up a couple times, we just we can't make our schedules work. Yeah, you're like hey, we got, you know not quite big enough yeah bullets coming on.

Speaker 2 34:03

So, yeah, we have to bump you out, man, but my point is it's like man, this, this, this, this thinking pro and I was guilty of it, me being in east texas that you know everybody in austin just hates cops and like why do these people? The reality is is that 99 of people in this town they love us and they love you guys and they love the hard work that you guys do, because, it's seen, the news stations are somewhat liberal. They're getting better. They are getting better they are getting better.

Speaker 1 34:26

I've had a lot of good conversations with them, and that's been a big part of what the year has been.

Speaker 2 34:30

But that goes back to you, your efforts, our efforts and other state organizations that are law enforcement, that are trying to the pendulum's swinging back and we're starting to see that on a broader.

Speaker 3 34:40

But I think the media change. You just mentioned podcast. I think podcasts are changing the way. Mainstream media oh, I think you're right. And mainstream media has realized that they've gotten where no one believes them, no one trusts them, that's true.

Speaker 3 34:52

They're all liberal, no one is tuning in. And now we used to get if there was a police shooting, we would get all these immediate requests for interviews and they were generally looking for a gotcha or you could tell it was already. They'd already made up their mind about shooting. And actually now most of our media requests they're like hey, we just really wanted to highlight this. Our requests now are friendly. I think somewhat.

Speaker 3 35:20

I think for the most part yeah, yeah for the most, but I think the pendulum is swinging, that the mainstream media is really even and I hate to admit it, sent in, is coming back to towards the center.

Speaker 2 35:31

Um, I told him to yeah on this podcast.

Speaker 3 35:34

Yeah, there you go cnn's coming back towards center. But I think mainstream media has realized we're either going to die or we're going to have to try and figure out how to do something a little bit different. And I think the Rogans, all the podcasts that are out there, people tune in because they rather hear it from people.

Impact of Podcasts on News Influence

Speaker 1 35:52

Yes, I think you're right. It's been pretty interesting to see the power of podcast style and just putting out your own info instead of relying solely on these news stations, news sources, where you get, you know, 30 second, 45 second clip, whatever, when you're actually putting it out. And I actually saw firsthand, because even I, like early on, was skeptical we all talk about, like we need to be more vocal, we need to talk about this, to put this other info out there, but you always wonder, like, all right, what impact does it really have? Huge. Well, we, like I saw firsthand earlier this year exactly how it works.

Speaker 1 36:27

We had a case where it was a, a female suspect who was arrested for child abuse. Right, she had significantly beat her, her like infant, uh, child and then the had a twin and the twin was dead and so she was arrested, put in jail. Well, I got a notification that she had gotten her bond reduced and was out. While they were actively like, still, there was this other case still pending and it didn't contain things. I don't think it had anything related to like preventing her from visiting the child that she had beaten and all this other kind of stuff.

Speaker 1 36:59

So I got all the info. Put it out there, put it out on X, and the response was wild and it hit all kinds of news stations. It pushed the message out there and then, within 24 hours, the judge who was presiding over the case not the one who dealt with the bond, but the judge who was presiding over the case revoked the bond and they picked her up and sent her back in jail. So, like we got her, we got that one undone within 24 hours of being notified about it, just because you were able to put the message out there. It resonated with people where people were like, hey, this is some bullshit, like there is no way this should happen, and then she wound up back in jail.

Speaker 2 37:34

It's amazing how, how, when you spit facts, yeah, yeah, when you speak facts.

Speaker 1 37:41

It's pretty easy to, and that was what I told my guys when I first ran for this position for the president. I told everybody I was like we don't need to make anything up, I don't need to exaggerate, I don't need to make stuff up. The truth is bad enough. We'll just go out there and speak the truth and tell facts, like, and it'll do the work for us and actually turns out that was right.

Speaker 3 38:02

So cameras and body cameras. The truth's all out there anyway yeah you're not hiding, you can't pervert, you can't change, you can't screw it up. All we can do is explain what happened, and I'd rather listen to michael bullock explain what actually happened, factually, out of his mouth and out of his, out of his, out of facts on a podcast. Wouldn't sure that were I wouldn't either.

Speaker 3 38:24

I thought I'd be talking out of my ass oh god but I'd rather hear facts from a cop or somebody at apd tell me facts than to get on and watch some newscast where a guy's reading it off a teleprompter and has no idea what a taser 10 is or what happened what three feet from away from me with ater and has no idea what a taser 10 is or what happened what three feet from away from me with a knife. He has no idea what.

Speaker 3 38:43

He's spewing some crap off a teleprompter he has no idea, it's not sincere, he doesn't care. I'd rather hear it from the dude that knows and has a has an understanding of it.

Speaker 1 38:53

That's where I want to go get my facts at and I think america is figuring that out I think you're right, because they're becoming podcasts in particular, becoming a lot more popular, because people do feel like you're getting it firsthand. This isn't washed through. This isn't someone's interpretation. Yeah, this is the person that just has the info, like that's it.

Speaker 2 39:13

And that's the reason why we started ours is because we got tired of getting the I gotcha moments. We got tired of doing a two-hour interview with somebody and then five seconds of that interview, Of course that still happens to this day. But this is the reason why we have this platform and we're thankful that just a couple weeks ago we got named in the top 25% across the world for podcasts. Wink wink Thank you, clint McNair and the number one law enforcement podcast in the nation. But it goes back to.

Speaker 2 39:40

this was built because we're we got tired of being pushed over and shit on, yeah, oh, and so now I think you're right, I think the pendulum swinging back of people looking to this, and so now it's changing the, the algorithm and the views with the media that they had to. They had to look in the mirror.

Speaker 3 39:55

Well and kudos to to everybody involved in this and thankful to have you come on. And you know, Tyler posed to me a while back having Chaz on and I was like I don't know about that, but we're no better than CNN if we don't have Chaz come on and it ended up being one of our more viewed episodes. But we had Thanksgiving together. Joe Gamaldi went on CNN. They interviewed Gamaldi for like 48 minutes or something 50 minutes on CNN.

Speaker 2 40:24

Over traffic stops. You know how much of it he aired oh probably like what Five minutes?

Speaker 1 40:28

They didn't, oh, they didn't. Oh well, even better.

Speaker 3 40:32

So we'll fly to Texas and interview you for 50 minutes, but if you don't say what we really want you to say, then we just want Eric or Don. Well, do that censorship. And having Chaz come on, I'm like do you know what Chaz is going to say? He's like nope.

Speaker 1 40:43

I'm like well, shit I guess let's get on in here and do it.

Speaker 3 40:47

If we don't do that, then we're no better than CNN.

Speaker 1 40:55

Well, and the thing, too, that I think a lot of people like, when it's just the conversation, like well, you didn't edit, you didn't script this, you didn't do nothing, it's just like, hey, what? What you see is what you get. Yeah, that's it. There's no, there's no agenda there, we're just going to have the conversation.

Speaker 2 41:08

Where it goes is where it goes, and that and that, and there are podcasts out there that are successful, and then I'm huge fans of that do a lot of editing, which is completely fine, but, like our style is more like raw, like literally now. Like when we first started, this was a lot of edits that went in, uh, with me improving like the video aspect of things, but now I literally drag, dump, yeah, and then the outro intro.

Speaker 3 41:29

There you go good better.

Speaker 2 41:31

Yeah, I will heavy on the other, yeah, yeah heavy on the ugly, oh uh, but anyway, yeah. So it's, it's pretty, it's pretty raw, yeah, it's, it's uh. Yeah, I do too, but I'm thankful for the platform to do it and I'm thankful that people believe into it and and buy into it for you watchers out there not the viewers and listeners but it's been successful.

Speaker 3 41:52

But yeah, anyway, let's talk about y'all stealing from Dallas, oh yes, we, basically we did.

Transition of Leadership in Law Enforcement

Speaker 1 42:01

We typed almost every single leader within Dallas city management to come to Austin and it started in. When did it start? May, Because in May TC Broadnax, who was a city manager in Dallas, now the city manager in Austin. John Fortune, who's one of the assistant city managers in Dallas, is now our deputy city manager.

Speaker 2 42:20

But it started with tweets. It started with the Facebook, you remember, you recall, about a year ago there was a tweet that went out and I believe it was from the Dallas city mayor at the time, and he said something along the lines of y'all were going maybe it was two years ago there was a situation going on. He said, hey, dallas is hiring. And there was a situation going on. He said, hey, dallas is hiring, and there was a kind of a tweet battle going. Do you remember?

Speaker 2 42:44

that I think it was between him and Kirk. Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, and so I think the flirting kind of happened there.

Speaker 3 42:49

They opened people's eyes down here. Look Austin's beautiful Like when you come down here and hang out.

Speaker 2 42:54

I mean, aside the bullshit, you know the DA, but anyway.

Speaker 1 42:58

Watch out for the roaming zombies every now and then. Yeah, you never know. Some of them are carrying machetes, hatchets, all kinds of things. You got to watch out, those aren't deadly, no Depending on who's holding them. Yeah, that's true, depends on who's holding them.

Speaker 2 43:09

But yeah, talk about who all Austin has stole from the city of Dallas.

Speaker 1 43:14

Yeah, we stole the their assistant city managers. Their chief is now one of our assistant city managers, eddie garcia, uh, is now our assistant city manager over public safety, um, and then they, they snagged a couple other folks that have been like, you know, staff, high level staff, up over in there, um, and I think we've, I think we're probably at, I don't know, four or five now of their, their top echelon that that are now down here who would have ever thought many, many, you know, years ago that the assistant city manager would be dallas's police or a police chief in general?

Speaker 2 43:46

one of the largest cities in the nation you know?

Speaker 3 43:48

and who ever thought dallas would have achieved that? The police loved and the community loved. Yeah, yeah, the dude is a game changer for dallas yeah, um what is his exact role. I understand his title but like the nuts and bolts, what. What will he be doing in austin?

Speaker 1 44:06

so he oversees the police, fire, ems and emergency management and a couple other little little divisions that are all related to public safety, and so he's the he's the boss over all of those departments, so all the chiefs report to him, so he oversees all of that. A little bit different role for him, obviously, because you're not just PD, you're also doing fire, ems and some other things, but that's his primary job is dealing with all the public safety entities and really trying to deal with what resources they need from the city, the problems that exist between just the city management side and then what the departments need.

Speaker 2 44:44

It's a great role for him to be in. He started.

Speaker 1 44:46

November 1? First week of November.

Speaker 2 44:49

Yeah, I think November 4th was his first day. Got you, got you. I think we're going to have him on the podcast in a couple weeks, nice, so stay tuned for that.

Speaker 1 44:55

Should be good. I actually will say so. Full disclosure, and I think it was public, because TC Broadnax, who's the city manager, was the first one to come down and it was between him and then one other contender who was the interim city manager for Denton, I think it was and initially most of us all the public safety unions we were like, eh, we don't know about this guy. Like TC is not probably not our first pick. Um, since he's gotten here, though, like I gotta say I I'm actually so far I'm a fan Like the guy knows how to manage, he knows how to delegate and it seems like he's interested in actually making things work.

Speaker 1 45:35

We're not just going to do stuff to do it, we're going to do it because we need something to happen. He's about action and about fixing things is what it seems like. There's always going to be problems, there's always complaints, there's always issues, whatever, but so far, with all the folks that are coming down here, I kind of feel like it's good for us. We'll see how it goes in the long run, but I'm encouraged.

Speaker 3 45:54

I think TC knowing empower him to be able to be effective, whereas normally the only thing leadership is worried about is making sure the next person above them is happy so they can still get a paycheck. I think it's going to empower Eddie. Eddie feels comfortable and I'm speaking completely out my ear, but knowing their relationship and it's built on trust I don't think he would have brought him down here if he was going to have Eddie handcuffed and not been've been able to do things and I'm, I'm super excited for y'all I hate it for dallas, my brothers and sisters at dallas, yeah um does he have his commission carried through dallas.

Speaker 2 46:34

How would that work?

Speaker 1 46:35

I'm gonna I mean he's straight retired I think yeah he didn't. He retired. You'd have to ask him if you, if you're a retired cop and you're not carrying, I'd be surprised I was like wondering like he's gonna have like an austin badge on or whatever. But no, I mean because it's gonna stick around you pat him down when he gets.

Speaker 3 46:50

Oh, that's right, I'm good, you better be careful.

Speaker 1 46:52

Yeah, okay my wind up fighting him oh, he is a scrapper he is, and so I I think it's going to be good. I mean, it's not a sworn position that he's in, it's just a you know, know the citizen manager is a yeah, he's a civilian.

Speaker 2 47:04

Thank you for saying it professionally. I got you. Okay, that's what I'm here for every now and then.

Speaker 1 47:09

But no, I think it's, I think it's going to be good.

Speaker 3 47:12

We talk on here a lot about leadership and every department is a direct reflection of the top. And Dallas suffered through years. My dad's retired from Dallas and Dallas suffered for years through horrible freaking leadership, broken freaking leadership. And it's amazing. You know, michael Jordan carried the bulls and it's amazing Eddie came in and turned the department around and, um, there was contributing factors Eric Johnson, the mayor up there, um, who switched parties. Just I guess he was getting. Uh, it wasn't cool to be a Democrat and actually support there's contributing factors Eric Johnson, the mayor up there who switched parties. I guess he was getting it wasn't cool to be a Democrat and actually support the police. But I thought Dallas was headed to Austin and I thought it was a point of no return.

Speaker 1 47:56

Yeah.

Speaker 3 47:57

And Eddie came in and the police loved him, the community loved him. He was engaged and it's a great example that one person leadership is a direct reflection and it is. All these broken departments all over texas can't figure out what the formula is and it's generally toxic ass, freaking piss, poor, incompetent leadership I was gonna say it's not.

Speaker 2 48:17

It's not a very complex solution, yeah no, that's why I'm here, because it's a shitty leadership with the sheriff in east texas.

Speaker 1 48:22

Yeah, I mean it, it's crazy, yeah, and the number one thing too and it ties into a lot of the recruiting stuff as well that I've been trying to get people to be like hey, if you want to solve recruiting, if you want to solve morale problems, take care of your people. If you just focus on and you take care of your people, they're going to take care of you. They're going to want to be here. They're going to want to bring other people here. Right, they're going to have better productivity, they're going to want to do more. But instead, for so long, it seems like we focused on where you're just telling people what to do.

Speaker 3 48:56

Like just go do this Like you're.

Speaker 1 48:57

You're just going to do this and then you deal with all these other issues that never get fixed and people feel like, well, well, no one cares about me, so why should I care about my job type deal, and that's where you run into a lot of problems and I do think eddie brings the opposite where, like, he actually is vested in taking care of people, and if he can get the city mentality to reflect that, then I think we'll really be well it's cool.

Speaker 3 49:18

Dallas is the model for their um mental wellness program and I spent a bunch of time joking and a bunch of their guys up there that are amazing. Ruben ramirez, uh, former assistant chief there. In empowering people is what has been a key to it, because tc told eddie it's your department, freaking run it.

Speaker 3 49:39

Well then eddie turned around and called ruben ramirez in and said we've got to figure out how to help our cops. And ruben's like what do you want? He's like well, I don't know, I'm just telling you go build a plan, run with it, go do something. And now it's literally the model of the country. It's called OWL Officer Wellness, longevity. I've had two people reach out this week asking me how to reach them to get their model, steal their model. That that's cool. It's being used all over. But TC's empowered Eddie. Eddie turned around and empowered Ruben Ramirez. Ruben Ramirez and his team developed the OWL team and he told them y'all run with it.

Speaker 1 50:12

Wow, what a concept man.

Speaker 3 50:14

Empower your people and turn them loose.

Speaker 1 50:16

Let's go.

Speaker 1 50:16

Yeah, that's a big change for us and that was one of the first things that, when TC came in, that to me was a positive sign came in.

Speaker 1 50:25

That to me was a positive sign where, like that was what he was doing, instead of trying to be involved in everything and him running everything. He's like, no, no, I, I pick my people and I give them you know the goal of the mission the marching orders, and then they go and make it happen and you know, when there's some stuff that has to be run up the flagpole, he's like, oh, they're not, I'll get involved, I'll do what I need to, but other than that, I know that that's their job. He's like my job isn't to do mine and theirs, it's just to make sure that everybody else is doing theirs. And I trust my people to do what I, what I need them to do, and I'm like well, wow, that actually sounds like a solid leadership principle there like oh my god, I don't know what to do with this though well, like, like we said, you know, uh, it's a we're on the uphill climb.

Speaker 2 51:01

Finally, yeah, austin looks like great leadership now, uh, with the city and the city management contract, we just need to work on the da and uh.

Speaker 1 51:09

Well, I mean I don't, I don't want to throw the uh, the sour pill in the middle of all that, but we did elect a communist just the other day to counsel again, so you know it seemed like we were doing pretty good replace mckenzie kelly right, uh, no, he replaced, uh, leslie pool. Okay, les's seat.

Speaker 2 51:25

Well, I think a communist also replaced McKenzie.

Speaker 1 51:27

Well, we'll see. She's not as obvious about that one. Yeah, Chris Delane is the one who replaced McKenzie. Is communist too strong Is socialist a little softer.

Speaker 2 51:37

I don't know. Yeah, socialist, maybe According to the Todd Knauss show, she's not well.

Speaker 1 51:46

No, it didn't help when she did post a picture with our.

Speaker 3 51:48

I guess he is a socialist.

Speaker 1 51:48

I should say probably not communist, but you know, a proud card carrying member of the Democrats, socialists of America.

Speaker 2 51:53

Yes.

Speaker 1 51:54

Mr Mike Siegel a little.

Speaker 2 51:56

Bernie Sanders himself.

Speaker 1 51:57

Yeah, there was a picture with him Kassar and Crystal Lane, who replaced McKenzie Kelly all like, oh yeah, we're ready to work. And I was like, oh God, great. So hopefully we will be able to work with them because we have been building positive relationships with council. But it's like, all right, we're making progress, doing great, and then all of a sudden it's like, oh nope, left turn, yeah, dang it.

Speaker 2 52:15

So well, we're uh, you know I have're kind of pulling out of it. No, I agree On the whole. It seems like we're making progress.

Speaker 1 52:32

We're doing a lot of good things and it's all about building relationships and working on things one little bit at a time, as much as you can, and then where you got to lob a bomb every now and then you lob it and you do what you got to do.

Speaker 3 52:39

We're talking about strong leadership. Tell us how APA apa standing up going independent how's? It's been a big work, a lot of research and a lot on the front end and then before, even in um inception, before you guys kicked it off, how's that going?

Independent Austin Law Enforcement Association

Speaker 1 52:58

good, like we. I started the conversation uh not too long after I got, uh got into the association as the president. I started looking and seeing what we were doing, seeing all the challenges that we're dealing with, seeing what solutions there are right, because sometimes extraordinary times call for extraordinary change. And so we started looking at it and that was where we realized like hey, we are a large organization that is based in the capital city and we have problems that a lot of other people don't have to deal with or that they deal with it to a little bit lesser degree. Right, we all deal with. In going to conferences all across the country, like, I've learned that everyone really is dealing with the same problem. It's just the severity at which you're dealing with it, really, but we all deal with the same bullshit. And so we realized that we could. We could stand on our own, we could be independent, we could do everything that we need to, but we could custom tailor everything to where we were dealing with Austin and Travis County problems, right, and we're a large enough, even though we have a staffing crisis. Uh, we're a large enough organization, uh, that we can do everything the way we need to do it and we can focus on everything the way we need to focus on it.

Speaker 1 54:09

And so far, we've been doing it for three months now and it has been my, my opinion. It's been a huge success, right? Our people, our people are happy. We've actually, you know, historically, about 95% of the department have been members with the APA. We made this change when and we actually picked up a few more people Outstanding, and so people actually rejoined because they were like, hey, this is different, this isn't same old, same old. This is what we've been needing to do. So I'll come back now. Heck, yeah, that's awesome to hear. And so people are happy with the direction. They're happy with what we're doing. It's, you know, it's still new. There's still going to be bumps on the road, you're still some learning curves, all yeah, but so far.

Speaker 2 54:46

But you can lean on your partners and lean on other associations out there. Yeah, I mean, you're willing to do yeah, and we put it.

Speaker 1 54:52

We we actually put it to a vote. We put it to a vote with our membership and we said, hey, this is what we're looking at doing. Are you on board with it? And it was one of the highest turnout elections that we had. Wow, and we had 80. Right at 80. Percent of the department or of the association was like yes, this is the right direction, let's go and so they, they did all that, which you know didn't take long.

Speaker 1 55:15

We beat that vote uh, not too long afterwards, where we had to vote for our contract, and then 90 percent of the department voted for the contract or voted in support of the contract. So like it's been a lot of change all throughout this year, well, you hit the ground running, dude.

Speaker 2 55:28

You have done phenomenal work over there. Kudos to you. I'll say this For people out there that think union ship and union work is easy. Let me tell you something he works just as hard as the guys and still puts in hours as a cop, beat cop, puts on a uniform, goes out there and works with the people, which is a great leadership trait. But, man, thank you for number one being a great friend personally and professionally, but also thank you for staying committed to the mission and staying committed to austin 100 that's what it's all about if our

Speaker 3 55:57

listeners that don't understand what independent means. Um, there's associations all over the state. There's about 2,500 law enforcement agencies in Texas. Probably 80% of them have associations, local associations. Most associations are affiliated with somebody, with TMPA or with FOP. They're affiliated with somebody. There is a few big dogs in the state Dallas and Houston are examples. They're independent. They're so big that they don't need outside assistance, quite frankly, and probably anybody over a thousand or 1500. Stand on your own, call your own shots. You have. You have the knowledge, the institutional knowledge, the capital. You have everything internally to manage yourself, whereas you know 12 man agencies just doesn't have the infrastructure, the capital, the time, the ability to do it. And so Austin had been affiliated with others for a while and they're standing on their own, which gives them leadership. You wouldn't want somebody telling you how to run your own house or you wouldn't want State Farm telling you you. You know where you can live and what you can do and how you can handle your business well, I think you hit it.

Speaker 2 57:11

Perfect is that. Is that you um austin's different, yeah, and y'all have to tailor to what austin needs, what travis county politics need.

Speaker 1 57:19

It's not a state, it's not a state issue, and so well, and on the and, and the thing that sometimes I think gets lost is I mean, just like this right, like we're not we're not affiliated with TMPA, but we still have similar goals. We can still sit here. We can work together. We can talk about things, we can strategize things together. We can still work together. It's stupid if we're not.

Speaker 3 57:38

Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 57:39

You know, and so that's the whole thing is like you can be independent but still be working with everybody, because we should be working together. Look at telec, right, this could be the first time.

Speaker 2 57:48

This will be the first session in my that I've ever known of of every single law enforcement association to be at a table for the same, the same goal, and imagine that, right, we all get along, put your, put your pride aside and let's all sit the same. Not that y'all it was, it was was different, but it's going to be very fascinating and cool to witness that, because this will be the first time it happens.

Speaker 1 58:10

Yeah, I mean, and I think that's. I mean, that's what we need to do. Yeah, the only way that we're going to push through all these times is for all of us to work together. It doesn't matter, like none of this is personal, it's not. There's nothing else going on here other than we just need to work together and we've got to do what's best for our people.

Speaker 3 58:27

That's what we're working on the path forward for actual success that we've not ever had before. Unity is the only way.

Speaker 2 58:34

Yeah, 100%. Wow, that was wow Shit. That's why he that's pretty damn impressive.

Speaker 1 58:39

That's why he's the president. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 58:46

I'm usually on chat gbt, that was pretty damn impressive I'm, I'm, wow, I don't even remember what I said.

Speaker 3 58:49

Yeah me either. It's okay, it's recorded for posterity purposes but anyway, yeah, so uh again, thank you for coming by.

Speaker 2 58:54

Uh, I know you're super, super, super busy. Uh, me and clint just kind of hang out here in the podcast room. You know, just do their own thing. We'll greatly appreciate you stopping by would we not hit on anything yeah anything I don't know.

Speaker 1 59:05

I mean it's stuff that's coming up right Like we're all looking to the legislative session, like that could be on the forecast.

Speaker 1 59:11

Oh yeah, and our podcast. Like, we are about to launch our own Austin-based one about. You know everything that's going on here. We're going to be launching that one in January. So January 2025 is when the APA podcast is going to hit. I haven't come up with a quippy name for it. People didn't like internally we do little videos that are our Thursday tidbits because they come out every Thursday. I caught some shit for that one. People like really you couldn't call it something else, and so I haven't come up with a quippy name for the podcast yet.

Speaker 1 59:36

So, I mean I will, I will, I will send you something, I will send you something. Okay, and then I'm going to put it to a vote. I'm going to let all the members decide, so you better pick some good ones.

Speaker 2 59:46

Yeah, that way you can put it on them.

Speaker 1 59:47

That's right. I'm going to say it's you and them. Yeah, that way, it's not my fault at all. Yeah, okay, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 3 1:00:00

That's leadership right that I would love to have you and your trophy bride on and talk about, not just from her aspect, being married to the cop, but, since she's the police also, not many police are married Not a lot. I mean there's 80,000 cops in Texas. It's a very small percentage. I'd love to hear how y'all navigate that, not as two, two cops married, but also her married to the union boss, the president, and um, it could be interesting to hear if you guys are.

Speaker 2 1:00:34

She's got an interesting story like she's a badass.

Speaker 1 1:00:36

Oh yeah, my wife is bad ass. Yeah, she's awesome, so it's a funny story.

Speaker 2 1:00:40

when I I called you, you were uh, you were. You were at some Republican RNC, yeah, rnc. And so I'm thinking that's badass. Austin sent him up there and he's like no, dude, my wife kicks ass, takes name. She was deployed with the SWAT team and I was like your wife is like. He's like oh yeah, dude, you think I run my house. No, I may run APA on the leadership side. She runs the Bullock House, so it was yeah, she's awesome.

Speaker 1 1:01:07

Yeah, she's phenomenal. She does a lot. She does all kinds of different things. She got back into helping with jujitsu training the defensive tactics again because she was almost a like she was almost a or an Olympic qualifier in wrestling Holy shit, yeah, yeah. So, like I know, it's like she really is. She's phenomenal, she does incredible stuff and I we have, we have an awesome life and marriage and we're incredibly blessed to have what we have. Uh, I'm sure she would probably have some choice words about the last year and the time commitment that it has required, because I mean, it is hard, yeah like it's a tough life to try to keep up with all that and you try to disconnect and then, when you're disconnecting, you feel like you're letting people down.

Speaker 1 1:01:50

Yeah.

Speaker 2 1:01:51

And you don't need that on your own time. I get it, I get it, but you need it, you need it for yourself and y'all.

Speaker 1 1:01:56

And that's the hardest part, right, like finding that balance is parallel to just policing, right? The easiest part of our marriage, oddly enough, was probably when we first got started and we were both working night shifts.

Speaker 2 1:02:08

Oh, okay, yeah, wasn't sure that was going either. Calm down, calm down, okay, well, jujitsu I wasn't sure.

Speaker 1 1:02:14

Yeah, no, no, no, we don't fight at home okay, it doesn't lead to anything, good. So but no, like working, oh, night shift's probably rough. No, we loved it. Night shift was great. Night shift patrol both of us. It was awesome. And now it's hard. You have tough times.

Speaker 2 1:02:30

I mean that's part of it but it's doing it together. Well, you can, and I say this lovingly when y'all are with each other, you can just tell that y'all are married. Y'all are obviously all of each other, but y'all are the key to any successful marriage is when you marry your best friend man. It's going to be a great success.

Speaker 3 1:02:48

Yes, 100%, Seeing two married people smile at the same time frequently.

Speaker 1 1:02:52

I was like, wow, that's odd. How does that happen? It works out well. We give each other a lot of shit.

Speaker 2 1:02:57

The other night I literally cried myself to sleep, laughing Me and Janet were in bed and she had said something to me that was absolutely absurd, and so I was laughing so hard because she also did something else that I don't want to say on camera. It happened to be a little flashlight and so, being my high school sweetheart dude, I was in tears, laughing the whole night. Yeah, it goes back to marrying your best friend. Yeah, 100% because I just figured that'll.

Speaker 1 1:03:20

Yeah, if Michelle's on here, that'll be an interesting one.

Speaker 2 1:03:29

No, I won't put it out there like that. Anyway, hey, you got to open seat at this table Anytime you want to jump on, anytime we can help out on anything from TNPA standpoint.

Speaker 3 1:03:37

You got our number, I know you're slammed so you're taking some time over here. Man, I truly truly truly appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely, absolutely happy to do it. Appreciate the impact. Everything we did and didn't cover were texas fop. Uh, no, I don't think so. Spring fop board meeting is april 11 through 13. In wichita falls. We've got three or four new lodges galveston, texas city. Uh, north texas retiree lodge, which is growing like crazy Pasadena's coming back. We've got several other large ones that are wanting to come back now.

Speaker 3 1:04:10

We're growing. We have Miami National Conference in the summer. I would love to walk in there. Instead of being the seventh largest in the state, I would love to walk in being the sixth largest. That'd be good. Not in the state, in the country. Maybe we can have it Maybe we and upward baby Maybe we can work towards that goal. I like it.

Football Championships and Holiday Wishes

Speaker 2 1:04:29

All right. Well, this about wraps this up. The state championships are going on right now football so good luck to everybody that's traveling in for those, and I hope Carthage loses. Don't let it out there.

Speaker 3 1:04:39

I passed their bus this morning. Did you really, yep, did you get in the bird?

Speaker 2 1:04:47

About 7.15 Carthage was full throttle 50 miles an hour down the interstate.

Speaker 3 1:04:50

There are some towns and some programs that just succeed over and, over and over again, and that is one of them All.

Speaker 2 1:04:54

bullshit aside, Surratt has done a great job.

Speaker 3 1:04:57

Hook them horns, beat Clemson tomorrow.

Speaker 2 1:04:58

Yes, yes, I guess the college football playoffs are going on too. So that was a crazy time, yep, go.

Speaker 3 1:05:06

SMU in Texas. Okay, and now you threw him off. Yeah, you threw me off on that one.

Speaker 2 1:05:13

So hey, you guys, take care, stay safe and also have a Merry Christmas. This will probably be broadcasted or pushed out after Christmas, but right now, from my heart to yours, clint, I hope you and your family have a Merry Christmas, and you too, michael.

Speaker 1 1:05:26

Okay, I thought I was about to be forgotten.

Speaker 2 1:05:27

No, no, it was not that good. You guys take care, stay safe. God bless you and, as always, may God bless Texas no-transcript.