Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
2024: Ranked #1 Law Podcast
Host: Tyler Owen and Clint McNear discussing topics, issues, and stories within the law enforcement community. TMPA is the voice of Texas Law Enforcement, focused on protecting those who serve. Since 1950, we have been defending the rights and interests of Texas Peace Officers by providing the best legal assistance in the country, effective lobbying at state and local levels, affordable training, and exemplary member support. As the largest law enforcement association in Texas, TMPA is proud to represent 33,000 local, county and state law enforcement officers.
Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement
#117- " The Recall" with TCMPA President Rachel Spahr and Lisa Chandler
In this follow-up episode, we continue the conversation on the leadership crisis unfolding in Texas City. TCMPA President Rachel Spahr joins by phone, with board member Lisa Chandler, to shed light on the ongoing fallout with embattled Mayor Dedrick Johnson and the community-driven recall effort now underway.
Lisa brings a board member’s perspective on how the toxic leadership at City Hall has not only fueled mistrust and low morale among officers but has also spilled over into the community’s confidence in its local government. Together, Rachel and Lisa outline the reality of working under a retaliatory mayor-run system, the risks officers face when speaking out, and the urgent push to restore accountability.
Listeners will gain a raw, inside look at how dysfunction at the top erodes public safety, why the recall movement has gained traction, and what true leadership reform must look like for Texas City PD and the community it serves.
This is more than a story about one mayor—it’s about the fight for integrity, stability, and the future of Texas City law enforcement.
email us at- bluegrit@tmpa.org
I guess, atmosphere that we've been kind of pushed in, and so we had initially tried to speak to citizens and see if they were, I guess, interested in initiating a recall. But the retaliation has just been blatant all throughout the city and even with citizens and business owners, so they were all kind of scared to initiate the recall.
Speaker 2:Welcome back. Viewers, watchers, listeners. I'm your host, tyler Owen. Our conference was a couple weeks ago. Hope you guys are doing great. Update on the conference we made a lot of money for TMPA Charities and got to see a lot of good people. It was like a family reunion. So it was there in Houston and I think next year is going to be in Dallas. Next year is going to be in Dallas, so it'll be the 76th TMPA conference. Looking forward to beginning the phase of beginning that conference as well here in the next couple months. It's always directed by Deputy Executive Director Mitch Landry, but hope you guys are doing great. As the summer comes to an end for a lot of us. Our kids went back to school this week and last week and thank God for that. I am ready for some normalcy in the household and to get back on a routine. But we've got some big news coming out of Texas City and we are joined by some of their leadership on their POA board. Rachel, are you there?
Speaker 1:Yes, I am.
Speaker 2:And you've got one other board member with you if you want to intro her.
Speaker 1:Yes, she is a board member for the TCMPA and she's been on the board since, I believe, like january of 2025. It's lisa chandler lisa, you're there.
Speaker 2:Hello, hey, lisa, how's?
Speaker 3:it going I'm doing good. How are you?
Speaker 2:oh, I am, I'm living the dream, living the dream. If you guys that that have do not recall, or are just now tuning in for the first time, we we had Texas City on several months ago and they are going through certain situations there in Texas City dealing with let's just call it what it is bad leadership, toxic leadership and leadership that needs to be addressed. And so Rachel was kind of dumped in the fire and took the bull by the horns and it sounds like she's got some good leadership there at the POA and they've gone through some trials and tribulations and currently, right now, they're going through a recall for their mayor and every time that I spoke with her, or Leighton Ganary spoke with her, it seemed like that was the head of the snake. It always kind of pointed back to what the mayor was doing and dabbling into police department business and they've had some big turnovers there because of the lack of leadership.
Speaker 2:And so we're going to have her on and kind of give an update on what the recall looks like, what the success that they've seen on on getting, you know, getting more involved, because the reality is some of our local associations, we love them and we help we'll help them anyway. But a lot of them don't realize that you you can't suddenly just go to war, right, you have to build your treasure chest in times of peace, and I think Texas City can speak on that. But we wanted to have you guys on and give an update on what's going on there and how the recall is going. So, rachel, if you want to start off there and kind of give us some background and how the recall started, yeah, so I think the last time that I was speaking with you what was that About a year ago now?
Speaker 1:Was it really A little less? Wow, it's been a while. We were experiencing so much retaliation and favoritism in our department and at that time we spoke a lot about the leadership within our department and we tried to bring it over to the mayor and we just kind of have been trying to give our issues to somebody that's just been refusing to listen for the last almost two years now that we've been kind of trying to call this out and speak on it, and so that's what kind of led to the recall of the mayor. We've tried to take every internal avenue that we could until we just kind of had to kind of take the leap of faith and initiate the recall or help to initiate the recall.
Speaker 2:Y'all pretty much, I guess, with TNPA's assistance, y'all have kind of been on this on your own on going through it.
Speaker 2:I personally have never seen or been a part of a mayor recall, and so it's been interesting and rewarding to see you guys navigate through this.
Speaker 2:Kudos to y'all, the POa leadership and your members there at texas city, for not only um, you know, staying, staying with the department, but also keeping up the good fight.
Speaker 2:You know, you and I've communicated at least once a week the last year and a half and, and as far as late canary too, and uh, I I can't say enough good things about how you've handled it, how y'all have handled it as an association, uh, but this mayor, dedrick johnson, he's just turned into a tyrant, uh, and it's obvious to me and probably y'all, that that he just he does not, he lacks the fundamentals of being a good leader, but he also has some kind of, I guess, vendetta against public safety and he and he put people in different places whenever he got mayor, uh, and that's that's. That's turned out to be not good decisions. And so now here we are with this recall. But there was an update last week, or maybe even this week, about how the recall process happened and you guys, y'all got some good news. Talk about that and talk about how that even came up. Was he kind of meddling in the recall itself or was it just a lack of communication from the county? Talk about that.
Speaker 1:So we actually experienced quite a bit. It's been a learning experience since the moment that we started all of this. We're police officers. We had no kind of knowledge We've had to learn as we're going kind of this political, I guess atmosphere that we've been kind of pushed in, kind of this political I guess atmosphere that we've been kind of pushed in. So we had initially tried to speak to citizens and see if they were, I guess, interested in initiating a recall. But the retaliation has just been blatant all throughout the city and even with citizens and business owners. So they were all kind of scared to initiate the recall.
Speaker 1:We had to learn real quick, you know, that we had to get those citizens behind us and that's what the social media outlet was there for. And you know we were pretty dedicated about putting out transparent information. That has led to a big following within our city, a big following within our city. And once we did kind of get the citizen that you know was willing to step up and kind of put forward that effort.
Speaker 1:We had worked with a, I guess, an outside political agency because we were also working 40 hours a week or plus. I mean, right now we're so short staffed that it's not normal for us to work 40 hours, it's usually 50, 60. I mean, we're trying to fill in those gaps. So we thought that we needed some help getting signatures and everything. But really what we've noticed is, with our social media outcry, we've been able to gather, you know, the support from the city and really it's reaching out to those citizens and having them kind of in front of us, speaking to us and signing for us, and that would be bigger. What we've learned, that it's really getting out in front of the citizens and talking with them and communicating and letting their voices be heard too.
Speaker 2:Well, and for some POA leadership out there that may be listening to this podcast or even watching, you can't just walk into City Hall and say, hey, I want to recall the mayor. There's got to be some documented incidences and I think, if you want to talk about that and talk about your experience and how y'all kind of y'all as citizens approach y'all if I'm not mistaken to y'all's POA and talk about the criteria that was met in order for that to happen, so you have to have a reason to recall.
Speaker 1:That reason can be anything, so any citizen can attempt to recall any public official or any elected official. We kind of had to study the charter.
Speaker 1:Texas City is a very unique city in the sense that there's only three cities left in Texas that are mayor-strong or mayor-led type of government, and that's Houston, pasadena and Texas City, and that's kind of what got us here. We've tried to reach out to the commission. We tried to speak to each one of the individual commissioners as well, but we had three on our side but then three were for the mayor and then the mayor ends up being the final say. So what he says kind of goes. It wasn't only the police union that was stepping up for the recall. It ended up being citizens that had spoken out on financial endeavors and retaliatory practices. I believe a six page affidavit and really the TC and PA was only just one of those issues for the recall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there's been some some. I guess the Margaritaville was, was was one of the most financially impactful uh aspects of texas city, but also some uh social media fake social media pages that were conducted and, um, there's a. You know the texas city turmoil is is what one you know local media outlet named it. But there's just been time and time again and me and clint have always said this on this podcast is that typically when there's smoke, there's fire, and I think you guys just kind of brought it to light and then asked for unity and that's what happened and then so Citizens kind of stepped forward with the recall aspect of things. But what happened last week was, honestly, leighton called me and we were both kind of like, oh my God, this is not good for you guys. Is that there was possibly like a? You guys didn't hit the threshold yet.
Speaker 1:What happened last week was kind of a shock to all of us. I think, Like I said, we had supported the recall. We didn't run it in the sense of they brought in an outside agency or outside contractor to actually run the recall outside contractor to actually run the recall.
Speaker 1:Now, ccmpa took a stance and we decided to get the locals involved. So not only was CCMPA involved but we had two local business owners and then the one that initiated the petition effort. As the petition effort and mainly it was just Texas City Municipal, I guess the board kind of decided to go out and get signatures and get the packets completed, or the signature packets completed. We took possession of the packets. That made sure that we kind of watched over ours, but we didn't watch over the outside, I guess the hired contractors. So I can assure you that none of our packets, you know, are, I guess, involved in any of the forgery or whatever they're trying to open an investigation on.
Speaker 1:We aren't quite privy to any of the details on that, but we all went out there and we held the most integrity. Yeah, was able to kind of reach out to our citizens, and that's you know. We wanted the citizens' voices to be heard and you know we encourage anybody that does feel victimized to go forward and that's more than fine with us. It definitely threw us for a loophole. There's going to be wins and there's going to be losses, and that was, you know, that was a step back, for sure, yeah.
Speaker 2:So we are hearing also from Lisa. Lisa, how long have you been on Texas City Municipal Police Association board?
Speaker 3:Hey, I've been on the board since I want to say February of this year is when I joined the board.
Speaker 2:Well, hey, kudos to you for stepping into the fire. Typically, you know, I said this earlier in the show is that you kind of prepare for the war chest whenever things are at peace and for you to step up and step in and kind of take it to the good fight whenever all this stuff's going on. Kudos to you for doing that. But give us some perspective from you getting involved in the board, why you wanted to serve on the board and then give us some perspectives on what's going on at the leadership level.
Speaker 3:Okay For me. I joined the board in February because I felt like it was time to add some fresh members, to get some fresh ideas. I think that they were doing a terrific job and I wanted to be a part of it, especially since I've been going through the same thing everybody else has, and it's much harder to disagree with what's going on at the PD than it is to kind of go with the flow of things you know. But everyone has their family and their lives, so I understand why you would need to stay out, and until I joined the board, I tried to stay out of it as well. But honestly, it's time now.
Speaker 3:I've been at Texas City for almost six years in September. I've been a police officer for 13 years and just being a part of the board has inspired me to continue to move forward. What's going on at the PD is kind of a mountain of things and I knew I know you can hear the hesitation in our voices. That hesitation isn't because we're not, you know, strong speakers or because we don't know what to say. We are constantly having to think about what we say before we say it because of the retaliatory internal affairs investigations that are going on and without any detail, including the one that we are currently a part of. Yeah, so this has been going on since I what Craven took over as chief of police, but it's something that's felt internally in every division at that department.
Speaker 2:You know, what's sad is that it's easy and I'm not suggesting that anybody in Texas city is doing this, but it's so easy for members of any local association to kind of throw rocks when they're in the back of the room Right, and then, for whatever reason, they tend to get involved, or some get involved, and you're like man. It's not as easy as what people think it is to navigate around the challenges of the leadership aspect, but also you're the one that's catching the punches when they come from the top, and so you and Rachel are very much products of that. And again, I cannot thank you enough for stepping up, stepping forward and serving alongside your brothers and sisters on doing this, because this needs to end as far as a toxic leadership, and it's not just for the police officers of Texas City, it's for y'all's community. Every time that I've ever spoken to anybody in Texas City, they care about the community so much. And the reality is is this toxic? This toxic leadership at the top is affecting y'all's, y'all's ability to do that.
Speaker 3:We have the best citizens. We can't hit on how great our community is. The support for the recall, the support not only for the recall, but everything that we've been experiencing has been overwhelming. It's been incredible. It's been incredible, it's strange for a police officer in 2025 to have this much support from the community.
Speaker 3:If you compare it to the lack of support that we have internally from administration. You know what I mean? Oh, yeah, and we are just trying our best to represent our department the best way we can, and we're on the board, but we speak for the divisions at the PD. There are people who can't, like I said, come forward for their own reasons, but this is not the opinion of seven people, it's a united opinion of the majority of patrol, did, criminal investigations and some of the administrators. Our retention is lower than it's been in years and we're going to continue to release whatever information we can to engage citizen involvement, other agencies, the MPA, anyone that can help us get the resolve that we need so that we can get our department back to a healthy place.
Speaker 2:Well again, and I like, like Rachel, probably, tell you she'd been working with me and Layton and Clint McNair and some others here at TMPA.
Speaker 2:And you know, there's certain things in this job that I absolutely love, and it's not that I enjoy picking fights with politicians, it's not that. But I do truly enjoy the satisfaction of sitting back and doing what I do as a full-time you know TNPA member to assist local associations in navigating around politically motivated bullshit I'm just going to call it what it is right. And it's so rewarding for me to do that in my full-time job and it's been very much rewarding seeing the success that y'all's association has had. Let's talk about that. Let's talk about some of the successes and then some of the things that you probably could do better moving forward, preparing yourself. God forbid that you know when, when, when it happens, when, when mayor johnson is is gone, and then hopefully, you know, not far behind him, new administration can kind of, uh, navigate around Cravens. What are you guys going to do in the future, preparing yourselves, and what y'all have learned during this experience? What has that been like?
Speaker 1:So I'll kind of speak on that a little bit. We have just completely realized and like you said before, this isn't just something that you can just jump into and go to war We've realized that we had to build community relationships with the commissioners. We had to build relationships with business owners and even the palmers. I mean, it's something that it's all about networking and speaking and making sure that you're connecting with the commissioners that are trying to run for office or the elected officials that want to get in. No longer are we going to sit back and kind of not put our hands into the political endeavors. We're definitely going to build those relationships and keep those relationships for the future.
Speaker 2:Well, and I and I kind of use this analogy is uh, during my time serving on the local board there in East Texas was me as a member not as a board member, but me as a member I sat back and I kept looking like man. The only time that our board members were at city hall or at city council or at commissioner's court was when we needed something. Okay, one thing we all three right now that are on this podcast have in common is that we we know that we get that one phone call from that one family member that didn't call my dad died, didn't call him on my birthday, damn sure, didn't call during Christmas. But we know that when they're calling, they're they're needing something right. Hey, I got warrants. Or hey, my baby daddy done, got locked up and they need a favor, and that's.
Speaker 2:That's kind of the way that that, when I was elected on our local board of, I'm not going to be that guy. You're going to see me front and center, regardless if there's an agenda item on there that's pd related or not. You are going to know my face and know our board's face, because that's respect, okay, and I think that it helped us out moving forward. Uh, not knowing that we were fixing to be up against a war, but it's having that presence set us up for success later on in the future, and I think that you guys are starting to do that now.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, we we've had a lot of success here lately with um pushing forward for the future. Um, whether or not this recall goes through or if it doesn't go through, we are still putting us, putting ourselves in a position that we're ready for for 2026 or 2027. You know, we have to think ahead and think and get things, I guess, ready for for the future of Texas City and for the future of our department. Yep.
Speaker 3:And we have to think about like I would say my reason is, and that we have to speak on behalf, which means we have to be good, active listeners as well. Right for the officers that are still going through this. Whether the recall pushes through or not, we're still going to be going through this, win or lose that recall. So, as far as plans, we have to get out there and listen to officers individually, teaching them coping mechanisms for all of the burnout that they're going through and they express to us how to cope with toxic leadership. It's not easy. It's not easy.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 3:But it's definitely something that we keep at the forefront of our minds even going through. This is that the community and the officers are why we are doing it.
Speaker 2:Well, and I'm going to point this out right now, typically I was talking to Leighton the other day. Historically, at TMPA, when we deal with admins, that can be challenging. I'm going to leave it at that. It's typically not a POA leadership background, and so what was shocking to me is Chief Cravens was. He came from that and I think it's imperative to kind of point this out. There is that I think it's when you're at the POA level, there's no benefit and there's no financial benefit of you doing what's right.
Speaker 2:Okay, but for whatever reason, as his professional career kind of grew, that changed and I think that it's sad that we've got a guy that's that has POA leadership and now it's the chief of police at a department his own department and his own POA department that he led has this type of retaliatory and toxic leadership aspect. So I'm going to say this to chief remember where you came from. If you're tuning into this podcast and you're watching this podcast, I think your men and women of your department will respect you more by saying you know what? I could use a little bit of change and I could change the culture and I could change it right now by the way I lead and I need to do things a little bit better. Remember where you came from and stay humble to yourself and stay true to yourself. Don't change for political ambitions, and I think that's what happened with Dedrick Johnson getting in that position, and it's just a sad situation to watch unfold. There's not much you can say on that one.
Speaker 1:I think that one they can nail it on the head. I think you kind of said it all.
Speaker 2:When is the vote of the recall? The final day of the recall.
Speaker 1:So we have until the final day of the recall. So we have until the 22nd of August, but we will get it in on the 21st of August just to be safe.
Speaker 2:So this Friday will be the day.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 2:And how soon do you think we'll find out?
Speaker 1:So what had happened was we were short by seven signatures and that ended up kind of being a blessing in disguise, because we were able to find in our charter that you can submit a supplemental I guess petition to go along with your first petition. But you only have 10 days from the time that it was announced that it was short. With that supplemental petition we've made a goal of getting enough signatures to where it will go through. In court We'll say that I don't know if there's any type of signatures that are going to be thrown out because of the investigation, then we want to be sure to have plenty then we want to be sure to have plenty Show a United Texas City.
Speaker 1:Yeah, make sure that the citizens you know are heard and show that the recall went through Right Now. I do believe that it'll take about 10 days. I think they have 10 days according to the charter to get them verified.
Speaker 1:And county is going to go ahead and verify them again. So we are definitely looking good right now. A lot of our citizens stepped up after they initially, I guess, announced the recall, and I think that a couple of city officials kind of pushed the citizens to see how harsh the retaliatory behavior that we're experiencing, and that's been a blessing in the sky to be honest with you yes, honestly it has.
Speaker 3:I think, with the signatures and without going into too much detail, I think it speaks to volume when you have current and ex employees of different departments in texas city signing the recall.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's all yeah, you're right, you're right. Well, hey, I know you guys are boots on the ground trying to get those signatures wrapped up. I just wanted to say, or have you guys come on and kind of give an update on on the debacle you guys were having to deal with? Again, kudos to you two and the rest of the board and all of your members for navigating through this challenge with class and professionalism. I can't speak. I, rachel and I were at the conference together. I introduced her to my wife and just about to every other person that I could. You are very much respected amongst Texas right now and everybody's praying and hoping that this will this, this situation you guys are going through will end soon. So proud of your sister and I'm proud, lisa, great Nice to meet you. Hopefully I can meet you in person soon and you guys take care, all right, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thank you all. Thank you very much, Tyler.
Speaker 2:See you all, bye, bye Again. That was Texas City Municipal Police Association. Our hearts and prayers continue with those men and women down there that are having to deal with such shitty leadership. And it's such a sad deal that you know we've got situations going on in law enforcement. And to have that battle within your own department and at the top of your leader with the mayor, it's just not something our law enforcement heroes really should have to deal with. So time will tell. Hopefully this Friday we will get the final vote and hopefully Mayor Deidre Johnson will be removed from office, and then time will tell how they navigate around that. But you guys, take care, stay safe. God bless you and may God bless Texas. We're out, thank you.
